Paul Nurse’s version?
Living things are extraordinary and our quest to define life is one of the most fundamental questions in biology.
Sir Paul Nurse is a geneticist and cell biologist whose discoveries have helped to explain how the cell controls its cycle of growth and division. Working in fission yeast, he showed that the cdc2 gene encodes a protein kinase, which ensures the cell is ready to copy its DNA and divide. Paul’s findings have broader significance since errors in cell growth and division may lead to cancer and other serious diseases. He was awarded the 2001 Nobel Prize in Physiology or Medicine, alongside Tim Hunt and Leland H. Hartwell. This Discourse was filmed in the Ri on 25 October 2019.
Transcript
00:10
what is life
that’s going to be the question that I’m going to consider this evening it’s one of the most fundamental questions in biology
I think many would argue it is the most fundamental question in bio biology
01:25
life is very difficult to define
19:13
the importance of information encoded in those molecules
00:05[Music]00:10what is life that’s going to be the00:15question that I’m going to consider this00:18evening it’s one of the most fundamental00:21questions in biology I think many would00:24argue it is the most fundamental00:26question in bio biology I’m going to00:30talk mostly about life on planet Earth00:34but the question also makes us think00:37about life elsewhere in the universe00:39should it exist perhaps built in00:43different ways from that on our own00:45planet before I begin I want to strength00:50stress something living things are00:53extraordinary they are completely00:56extraordinary they are entities that can01:00maintain themselves they can grow they01:04can organize themselves construct01:06themselves reproduce into two identical01:10copies or close to identical copies they01:14pass on their characteristics to their01:16progeny they are also extremely diverse01:21and it so happens which is why this01:25lecture is difficult is that life is01:28very difficult to define now the01:33approach I’m going to use is to examine01:36some of the great ideas of biology five01:40great ideas of biology which01:43characterize the attributes of life I’m01:46going to give you a little history of01:48where those ideas came from and then I’m01:52going at the end or towards the end of01:55my lecture to derive from those five01:58great ideas some core principles with02:02the hope of getting closer to defining02:05what life is I hope you noticed the02:09careful way I said that sentence02:12clothes hope of getting closer rather02:15than actually answering the question now02:18of course I’m not the first to ask this02:22question it’s been wrestled with by02:25scientists over the ages and my first02:28slide here was is the first page of a02:31very influential contribution published02:34by scrolling her heel the uncertainty02:37principle a physicist who dabbled in02:42biology in his later life and published02:45a book this book here in 1944 it’s a02:4975th anniversary of this book based on02:53lectures he gave in Dublin in 1943 he02:58was particularly concerned with how03:01living organisms maintained order as a03:06physicist he was particularly interested03:08in the second law of thermodynamics and03:11he wanted to know how life could escape03:15the decay into chaos that is of course03:19enshrined in that particular law and how03:22to do it across generations this is two03:26quotes I’ve taken from that 1944 book03:30which actually is quite a good read I I03:34still read it occasionally and in fact03:37it’s on my kitchen table because of this03:39talk at this very moment the first there03:44an organism’s astonishing gift of03:47controlling a stream of order on itself03:50and thus escaping the decay into atomic03:53chaos the second law as I just said he’s03:57also interested in how this order03:58displays the power of maintaining itself04:01and producing orderly events and this is04:05what I’m going to be talking about in04:08the rest of this lecture I’m going to04:11start it with the cell the cell as the04:16basic unit of life as I said I’m going04:20to give a some background to this some04:23history04:25the soul was first observed by Robert04:29Hooke in and who he published his04:32observations in 1665 and you’ll see here04:36on the left the black and white picture04:38of what he saw he took a piece of cork04:42cut it with a razor put it under a04:44microscope similar to the one you see in04:46this picture behind me and saw lots of04:50little boxes I put on the right there04:54a modern scanning e/m picture it’s04:58pretty similar really not too much05:01advancing 350 years what he saw there05:05were rows of boxes he called themselves05:08after the Latin cellar for small cubicle05:12and soon after him a Dutch Draper Lowen05:18Hooke lived in Delft quite a humble man05:21made even better microscopes then then05:26hook and he scraped between his teeth05:30and put it under one of his microscopes05:33and what did he see he saw bacteria the05:38very first observations of single-celled05:42microbial life the charming pictures05:45here can you see05:46I think it’s Figure B obviously they05:49were swimming around and did a05:50loop-the-loop there as you can see lone05:54hook was a bit disturbed by this because05:56he’s rather proud of his clean teeth and05:59I think was disturbed at discovering all06:02this life in between his his teeth he06:07sent all his observations to the Royal06:09Society as a thousand letters they’re06:11describing his observations we don’t06:16have a reliable portrait of him but he06:21was the neighbor of Vermeer the famous06:25Delft painter and Vermeer and usually06:28did two paintings of a scientists at06:32you’re a geographer and an astronomer06:34and I like to think this might be loan06:37hook that06:37looking at here I should say as I am a06:40scientist there’s not one ounce of06:42evidence in favor in favor of that06:47now although cells were observed just06:52before the beginning of the 18th century06:56science developed over quite a long time06:59and a couple of centuries in fact and07:03eventually led to two concepts the first07:07concept was stated here by Theodor07:11Schwann a German zoologist he published07:14in German this is a translation here07:16from 1839 we have seen that all07:19organisms are composed essentially of07:22like parts namely of cells in other07:25words the cell is the basic structural07:28unit of life very critical the second07:32observation the second concept I want07:34you to be aware of a few years later07:36another German Rudolf Birkhoff07:38politician and scientists founder of07:41pathology by the way he stated it’s a07:44little different every animal appears as07:47a sum of vital units living units each07:49of which bears in itself the complete07:52characteristics of life in other words07:55the cell is also the basic functional07:58unit of life all growth and development08:02of life is in fact based on the cell08:04here’s a fertilized mammalian egg with08:08the sperm bashing on the door of the of08:11the egg and if I haven’t inspired an08:15interest in you yet let me remind you08:18all that you once all looked like this08:21you were once all a single cell through08:25growth and repeated reproduction of08:28cells we produce here I mammalian embryo08:31and then eventually ourselves now what08:34do we learn by cell from from from this08:36discussion about cells about life and08:39what it is this is a modern multicolored08:43version of cells well a couple of08:45conclusions the first point is as I have08:50just said08:51as the basic structural and functional08:52unit of life it is the simplest entity08:56which exhibits the characteristics of08:59life it can maintain itself it can grow09:02it can self-organize it reproduces and09:04it has heredity what this means is if we09:08try and simplify the discussion that if09:12we can understand cells then we’re very09:15close to understanding life because it09:17is the simplest entity that has the09:19characteristics of life and that means09:21cells are going to figure quite a lot in09:23this talk but what I say about cells09:26applies to living organisms as well09:28including ourselves the second point is09:32that the cell is bounded it’s separate09:36from its environment09:38you saw that obviously with the09:40microbial cells the bacteria but it’s09:42also the case for all our cells which09:45are all surrounded by a membrane and09:50separate from the rest of the09:52environment why is that important it’s09:55important because it allows order to be09:59generated within the cell giving rise to10:01complexity without contravening the10:05second law of thermodynamics it’s an10:08isolated system which creates order as a10:12consequence of further disorder in the10:14environment so in fact the problems with10:17second law of thermodynamics that10:18physicists always worry about simply10:21isn’t an issue because of the cell as a10:23bounded entity although it’s a bounded10:27intimate entity it has to be in10:30communication with the environment it’s10:34semi permeable the membrane is is10:37literally semi permeable and it builds10:40up within itself components that it10:43takes from outside in its environment it10:47produces Monteux it takes them off a10:54concentration gradient it requires10:56energy to do that but the important10:59point is that being isolated from the11:02environment11:03complexity can arise so we don’t have to11:05worry about the problem that certainly11:09was of great interest for Schrodinger11:12however he said something a little more11:15he was interested in how that orders11:18maintained generation after generation11:20and he came up with the idea that maybe11:25there was a code script and this is11:28another quote from that little book11:30these chromosomes we kind of come to11:35chromosomes in a moment containing some11:36kind of code script the entire pattern11:39of the individuals future development in11:42function is related to a code script and11:44he goes on to speculate that it may be11:47what he called an a periodic solid it11:51was trying to explain how order could11:53persist and he speculated that that code11:57script underpinned the development and11:59function of the living organism now this12:02is essentially the second great idea of12:07biology I want to talk about which is12:08the gene as the basis of heredity now12:13this came about from work from the abbot12:17of a monastery in Bruno now the Czech12:22Republic he was a monk when he did what12:25I’m about to describe but then became12:27the abbot he was trained as a physicist12:33and he got very interested in doing12:36crosses with plants to try and12:40understand heredity and how12:42characteristics were transferred down12:45over the generations I visited it in12:481981 at the height of the Cold War I12:51took this photograph of his garden12:54actually it was quite a big gun wasn’t12:57used for growing things to eat it was13:00used for growing his plants for his13:02experiments and next door to it was a13:04greenhouse unfortunately dismantled of13:06similar size I mean frankly there was13:09major investment from the Justinian13:12monastery in scientific research quite13:15extreme13:16ordinary in the 1860s and from that13:19research he came up with the laws of13:22genetics and he did that and he was13:25successful where many others had failed13:27for several reasons he did trial crosses13:31with a range of plants and decided only13:34to work on those which he could make13:35sense of you could say that he was13:38cheating in some ways but actually in13:40biology which is so complex you have to13:44choose material and problems that you13:46can solve remember science is the art of13:49the soluble and it’s no point wandering13:52around if you can make no sense of it13:53and he ended up choosing the P and he13:56chose the P because it was easy to13:58characterize the the different traits of14:01the plants I’ll show you some in a14:04moment and because he was a physicist he14:07counted what he saw he was quantitative14:09so you can see here some of the14:12different characteristics here we have14:14flowers of different colors we have tall14:16plants short plants we have seeds that14:19are not shown here which are rough or14:22smooth now because he worked on peas and14:27these different characteristics the14:30differences were decided by single genes14:33it became easy for him to analyze what14:37they produce for the very simple ratios14:39that you may have read about in school14:41like three to one one to one nine three14:45three to one and what you need to take14:48home from that is simply that he could14:51explain it all if what was the basis of14:54this were particles particles that were14:57being segregated during the during the15:01crosses that he was carrying out these15:04particles a particular model for15:07inheritance of what we’d know as genes15:09today interestingly nobody sublime15:13didn’t notice of what he published it15:17lay there for 35 years and then it was15:21discovered by three geneticists at15:26roughly the same time who got the same15:28results15:29they weren’t always so generous in15:32acknowledging their predecessor and15:34there’s a story around that but I’m not15:37going to sully science by telling you15:39about it all you have to conclude is15:42that they’re human beings just like we15:43are today and we’re not perfect then it15:47was taken very seriously why we don’t15:50really know but several things happened15:52between 1865 and 1900 1900 and – the15:57first is that chromosomes were15:59discovered this is a late 19th century16:02picture of chromosomes in onion root tip16:07cells which is where I first saw cells16:10when I was at school in Northwest London16:13did a squash and saw these these16:15chromosomes here and these chromosomes16:19were postulated to be the place where16:23genes were located which were being16:26separated every time a cell underwent16:28division then of course that led16:31subsequently to the idea in fact the16:35fact that these chromosomes and genes16:37were made of nucleic acid DNA that was16:43discovered by Avery working in the16:46Rockefeller Institute in New York which16:49I led for eight years from years ago16:51actually and that showed that DNA was16:55the chemical basis of heredity did a17:00beautiful experiment took a DNA from a17:03pneumococcus a bacterium of a not of a17:06virulent strain basically dropped it on17:09a non violent strain and transferred17:13virulence from one to the other and it17:15was DNA that contained that and that’s17:17what showed it was DNA was the17:20hereditary material and then of course17:23what we see here is the double helix the17:25famous double helix structure involving17:29Crick and Watson based on the17:31experiments of of Franklin and and17:36others like Wilkins and17:39we know and I shall refer to it again a17:42bit later that this is the basis of17:45heredity and finally Crick himself17:50postulated what he called the central17:54dogma of molecular biology where the17:58information which I shall talk about18:00more stored in DNA is transcribed into18:05another nucleic acid RNA and then18:07translated into protein and that’s going18:10to form a central part of what I shall18:11say this is the basis of Schrodinger’s18:15code script it explains the permanence18:18of the heredity because it’s replicated18:22every time a cell and therefore organism18:25divides so living organisms and now we18:29have to think about principles are based18:32at least on earth on nucleic acids18:36nucleic acids and encode information and18:40they can be precisely copied because of18:44pairing between bases that make them up18:48and again I shall say a little more18:49about it before we do that though this18:52discussion has introduced two new18:55concepts that I want to introduce to you18:58the first is chemistry the chemical19:03aspects of living organisms are critical19:06for understanding life life as chemistry19:09the second concept is the importance of19:13information encoded in those molecules19:16and these are the two ideas are going to19:18discuss next and I’m going to start with19:21life as chemistry basically life is19:26based on chemistry and physics19:29it’s the mechanistic basis of life I19:32have to stress that because for many19:36years actually a couple of thousand19:37years I’m starting with Aristotle19:41scientists thought that the complexity19:44of life was so great that it could not19:47be explained by the laws of chemistry in19:49physics they proposed19:51vitalism that there were vital laws that19:54weren’t based on chemistry and physics19:55and that were necessary to explain that19:59complexity it took work by French20:04chemists to overturn this initially20:07Lavoisier although his work was20:10terminated because he was guillotine20:12because unfortunately as well as being a20:14scientist he was a tax collector for the20:16ancient regime so he lost his head and20:20then it was taken over by Pasteur the20:23famous Louis Pasteur who was working on20:26an applied project on why sugar beet20:29fermentation went wrong came to the20:32conclusion that it was all to do with20:34chemical products being made during20:36fermentation and came to the following20:39conclusion that fermentation was a20:42physiological act yielding chemical20:45products for the cell and he could then20:48advise the sugar be fermenters as to how20:51to do it and then he made a general20:53conclusion chemical reactions are an20:56expression of the life of the cell in20:59other words he was postulating if we21:01want to understand life we have to21:03understand the chemistry that goes on in21:06life I can summarize that in a different21:09way which is that living cells back to21:12cells again can be considered as a21:14chemical machine a complex chemical21:19machine including also physical21:22processes as well however it is a very21:26special sort of chemistry that we see in21:29living cells on this planet this21:33chemistry is based on carbon carbon is21:37made inside stars21:39it’s the fourteenth most common element21:42in the universe we are basically based21:45on stars sort of rather interesting idea21:50now what’s important is that each carbon21:53atom can form four chemical bonds21:56linking it to other atoms and it can use21:59two of those bonds to link to other22:01carbon atoms to make up chains22:05a sort of polymer you can see that here22:07there’s a backbone of carbon that makes22:10up a linear polymer but then it has to22:17free bombs which can form bonds with22:23other atoms such as oxygen hydrogen22:28carbon itself and this means that22:31there’s a variety of different22:33chemistry’s that can be put on top of22:36this basic polypeptide chain and that’s22:39because it’s made of a chain of amino22:44acids which are of carbon and connected22:47by nitrogen and there’s 20 different22:50amino acids that are used by life and22:53they had different chemical22:54characteristics some of them are bulky22:56some of them are small some of them are22:59siddik some of them are basic that is23:01their negative or positive charges23:03some of them like water some of them23:05don’t like water and all of this can23:08lead to a wide variety of chemical23:10properties and because you can build up23:14extremely long carbon chains23:17maybe I mean thousands of thousands long23:22then you can produce very complex23:25structures which can also fold up into a23:29three-dimensional structure now there’s23:32a lot going on here that is really23:34important to emphasize because what we23:37heard see here starting off with a23:39simple carbon polymer made up of23:42different amino acids you can make23:44elaborate molecular structures with a23:47variety of different chemistry’s that23:50can be put there that leads to a huge23:52variety of chemical machines and these23:57are the basic workhorse of life these24:02make up the enzymes that change other24:04chemicals into different chemicals they24:07can build up molecules they can break24:11down molecules24:12that’s as part of metabolism which in24:17critical for the functioning of life and24:20these chemical machines are so efficient24:22that they can operate in very gentle24:25conditions we sometimes try and mimic it24:28in rather more extreme conditions in for24:31example industrial chemical plants where24:34we have high temperatures and high24:35pressures and an extreme conditions but24:39these can operate in very gentle24:41conditions why is that important it’s24:44important because it means that within a24:47cell a tiny cell many hundreds in fact24:50thousands of chemical reactions can be24:53occurring in a very restricted space24:57because you’re not having to have high24:58temperatures or pressures you can have25:00very gentle conditions however these25:04reactions can only occur if there’s25:07different chemical micro environments so25:12if we look a metabolic map here each of25:15those dots on this map I had to learn25:17this as an undergraduate that’s why I25:19took all the names of but all these dots25:23are different chemical reactions and25:24they’re all occurring simultaneously in25:28the tiny structure of the cell and if25:31you now look at a cell you’ll see it’s25:35extremely complex and but what I want to25:38try and convince you is that actually25:41this complexity represents the micro25:46compartments of different chemistries25:48that are occurring on in the cells it’s25:50not how it’s normally explained and25:51that’s brought about by the proteins25:54themselves with different folds making25:57little compartments where a certain25:59chemistry can go on assembly of those26:01enzymes which result in components being26:05passed and molecules being passed from26:08one enzyme to another different membrane26:10components compartments as you see here26:13in the cell and even different colloidal26:16structures what we now call phase26:18separations so when you look at the26:21complexity of the cell I want you to26:23imagine it as many hundreds in fact26:27thousands of little chemical26:30microenvironments carrying out specific26:32chemical reactions adjacent to each26:35other connected to each other but26:37separate and that is needed to generate26:40the chemical complexity of life now26:44there’s a consequence of this is that26:46this intricate spatial organization of26:49the cell of these different chemistry’s26:52must be able to communicate across the26:56cell because if they don’t communicating26:58with each other you can’t get order so27:01you need compartment ation and27:03separation that you need also27:06communication what contributes to that27:09and that comes from physics is that27:12there is a skeleton within the cell made27:15up a different like tramway raised or27:18railway tracks connecting different27:20parts of the cell and there’s little27:21motors working their way through the27:24cell transporting different components27:26from one place of the cell to other27:28places in the cell and all of these did27:32need energy and in fact to maintain the27:35cell needs energy and there’s little27:38batteries in the cell as well like our27:40chemical batteries charged hydrogen27:42atoms can accumulate behind some of27:44these membranes and active batteries are27:47transferred through the membrane the27:50protons are charged atoms and that27:55produces high energy chemical bonds27:58which are stored for use elsewhere28:04communication then is critical and28:07communication between all these28:09components is dependent upon information28:12and the transfer of information and28:15that’s my next great idea in biology28:18that I want to explain to you as the28:21basis of life and that is that28:23biological entities are complex systems28:27and the information management is28:30crucial to understanding how they work28:34it won’t surprise you that this idea has28:38grown a lot of prominence in the age of28:40computing because obviously information28:43and the man28:44if information it’s critical in28:46computing and so there was much28:49discussion of this from the 1940s 1950s28:52and 1960s onwards but it may surprise28:56you to learn that the idea that light is28:59a complex system with these properties29:01has his origins with the philosopher29:04Kant Immanuel Kant around 1800 I found29:09this a big surprise he wrote a book on29:12on moral philosophy and for some reason29:16got completely distracted into talking29:19about the complexity of life in talking29:22about moral philosophy in fact although29:29biology can be described in terms of29:32chemistry as I’ve just done it often29:34only makes sense biologically when that29:38description is translated into the29:41management of information that sounds a29:44bit abstract but it’s important that you29:46get this for understanding life and29:48there’s two examples I want to use to29:51illustrate that and why it’s important29:54and the first is to go back to DNA29:58now I’ve already explained that DNA is30:03made of DNA of course but is the30:07hereditary material it encodes30:10information implicitly Mendel by the way30:13it was information showing the use the30:16word code stripped but the only made30:18sense back in 1865 if you saw it that30:21way now the double helix of DNA and you30:24see here being copied and because of the30:28DNA is like a ladder of bases there’s30:32four different bases and G base G will30:36bind to the base C and base a will bind30:39with base T so that if you pull that30:41apart you can get a perfect copy it’s a30:44beautiful thing and I want you to note30:46that those bases are all on the inside30:49of the polymer that sort of protected30:52there and that’s going to be important30:54in a moment now as I said we can do30:57describe it as I just did in terms of30:59chemistry but it makes sense31:01biologically when you recognize that31:04actually it’s a digital information31:07storage device I mean that’s what we’re31:10looking at here a digital information31:12storage device now there’s more to it31:17than just that because it’s organized as31:21a linear script now we often nearly31:26always order information as linear31:30scripts think of reading a sentence it’s31:33a linear script think of listening to me31:36talk to you they are linear scripts31:39think of computer code it’s a linear31:42script think of a polymer it’s a linear31:46script it is no accident that life is31:49built on a polymer because it is the31:51perfect way of storing information which31:55is critical for biology it’s critical31:57for information storage also as I32:02explained it gets better because the32:05linear DNA molecule is very stable32:07because the backbone is on the outside32:10it is not chemically reactive the32:12chemical reactive parts are on the32:14inside and are protected one with32:16another so it’s a very stable way of32:18storing that information however it32:23can’t do anything because it’s so stable32:26it cannot do anything but remember the32:30central dogma you go from DNA to RNA and32:33then you go to protein and remember what32:36I said about protein and I’m going to32:38just show you the same slides again now32:40you still have a polymer it still32:43reflects information each of those amino32:45acids what you put in there and the32:47order is determined by the base sequence32:50in the DNA but now everything is facing32:53outwards and all the chemistry is facing32:56the environment so you have oxygen you32:59have nitrogen your positive charge33:00negative charge much less stable but now33:04it can carry out chemical reactions so33:06what you do is you are turn33:10stored information in nucleic acid into33:13chemical actions in protein which are33:16needed for life so you have a storage33:19device which is stable and you have a33:21protein which are reactive and carry out33:25the chemistry of life this is really33:27fundamental in understanding life33:30because you can solve the problem of33:31information storage and you can solve33:33the problem also of chemical action33:37second example relevant for information33:40and making sense of biology and33:43information is seen with gene regulation33:47this was shown by Jacob Amano33:51who I knew at least a new couple quite33:54well and they did it by doing beautiful33:57genetics with bacteria looking at sugar34:00metabolism in bacteria and what they did34:04by abstract genetics is discovered34:07negative feedback control what is34:10negative feedback control well this is a34:14governor from a steam engine now you may34:17be like me I sort of understand most34:19machines built before 1900 and almost34:23nothing built after 1900 I took a34:26picture of this in New Zealand actually34:29it was in a steamship and I went down34:32and photographed it because it was such34:34a beautiful thing it was found on34:36originally on James Watts his steam34:38engines and we understand it the spindle34:41rotates the balls are thrown out they34:45lift a valve and that closes steam off34:48from going into the engine so it slows34:50down then the balls go back in again and34:53they let steam back into it and it34:56speeds up and this is essentially34:58homeostatic s– it’s maintaining a35:01certain in this particular case rotation35:04of the particular spindle and what35:08Jacques will mano did was to use this35:11principle to describe regulation and35:14here we’re looking at something in fact35:18not to do with gene regulation but it’s35:20the same principle35:22what they described where we have a35:25chemical AE turned into chemical be35:27turned into chemical see there’s enzymes35:30which are the green arrow and as C35:32accumulates it switches off the enzyme35:35that is catalyzing a into B and35:38therefore you inhibit making B you35:42inhibit making C and then C drops in35:45level you lose the inhibition up comes35:48the enzyme between a and B and you’ll go35:50back again what this is doing is35:52maintaining by negative feedback a35:55constant source of material if we look35:58at the bottom one we have positive36:00feedback loop which is the complete36:02opposite when you accumulate C it36:04switches on the enzyme going from A to B36:07so once you’ve started this it turns36:09into a switch and you cannot go back you36:12get the principal and life’s metabolism36:15and gene regulation is built on these36:17simple principles of this type of36:20feedback control now you can put them36:22together in all sorts of complicated36:24ways and a metaphor is an electronic36:27circuit that you see here and these36:29circuits which we find in life can36:32produce negative and positive feedback36:34switches timers toggles oscillators all36:38of which are playing a role in life now36:43it’s rather special just like the36:45chemistry is special this is special36:47because when we think of for example36:50computing which is of course the same36:52principle you have hardware and software36:55yes but hardware can’t change the36:58software you can make the hardware37:00operate in different ways but the37:03hardware is wired in in biology it’s37:07cleverer it was used the term was used37:10by Dennis Breyers assistants biologists37:13he used the word wetware rather than37:16hardware because the communication37:19between the different regulatory steps37:22is carried out by molecules diffusing37:25through water and this means you can37:28rewire the hardware by directing the37:32chemicals to go to different places so37:34not only37:35can you reprogram it through if you like37:38changes in software you can also change37:40it to changes in hardware we do not yet37:43begin to understand this complexity but37:46it’s in it’s important now networks and37:50be very complex we see at the top here37:53how we like to think about things or to37:56be more precise how men like to think37:59about things which is linear pathways38:03going from A to Z but the truth is in38:06biology it’s much more complex and38:09whereas we all intuitively understand38:12what’s happening at the top there we38:13don’t at the bottom it’s just too38:15difficult that is because of the next38:18idea I shall talk about that of38:21evolution by natural selection simply38:23means that you add things on to38:25something and make it just more complex38:27not necessarily the simplest way to do38:30something but simply a way of actually a38:34way of actually doing it but I want to38:37mention one more thing that we don’t38:38often think about in these pathways but38:41if we introduced dynamics into a pathway38:44that is changes in time it becomes much38:47richer and this is a simple example of38:51it we have a single at the bottom their38:53pathway and now we’re pulsing38:56information down and either frequently38:59or infrequently and the output can be39:02different depending on the oscillation39:05the frequency this has already been seen39:07why am i stressing this well I’ll tell39:09you why here we see a metaphor for it39:12can you see the traffic light if it’s a39:15simple on-off signal it’s either green39:17or red not a lot of information if you39:20introduce dynamics you can produce the39:22Morse code that you’re pulsing39:25information and now you can write the39:27works of Shakespeare now I’m not39:29suggesting the cell is writing the works39:31of Shakespeare but I am suggesting that39:34we haven’t got to beginning to the39:36bottom of how this is all operating in39:39cells they are absolutely extraordinary39:42and are the basis of how living things39:46work so what I’ve explained to you is39:48that the39:49where it’s working is through chemistry39:50plus physics and then management of39:53information and that’s key to39:55understanding what life is now my final39:59idea I can’t stop it this is the most40:03beautiful idea in biology evolution by40:07natural selection it’s got two aspects40:12life evolves and a major mechanism of it40:17is natural selection it’s a beautiful40:22idea which we mostly associate with40:26Charles Darwin who you see on the right40:30but actually the idea of evolution that40:35is of living organisms changing over40:37time was not Charles as I idea it had40:41been talked about for a century before40:44by French scientists like like Lamarck40:49for example but also erasmus darwin40:52who’s shown there on the left who was40:55his grandfather of charles now erasmus40:58is a rather entertaining character so41:01I’m just going to entertain you with one41:03of two things about erasmus he he was a41:08poet and he published most of his41:10science in blank verse I have a number I41:15collect books from this time and I have41:18a number of books published in the late41:2018th century and it’s all written there41:22in poetry with it with actually very41:26interesting science there as well he was41:29a dr. George the third asked him to be41:33his physician more than once but he was41:36a Republican and wouldn’t do it he was41:39in favor of female education and he set41:43up a girl school and wrote a book on how41:47women should be taught it’s the first41:49female school in in the UK so I’m told41:55he got into trouble with his local Dean42:01he lived in Litchfield for some of his42:03life in the Cathedral closed and he had42:05on his coach the motto everything from42:10Cheryl’s what did that mean if you open42:13up a shell you see you would see a sort42:16of formless blob in it yeah and what he42:19was arguing is all life came from42:21formless blobs but the Dean didn’t like42:24it very much42:25and told his richer patients that they42:29shouldn’t go to this rather eccentric42:33doctor and because he actually only42:35charged rich patients he didn’t charge42:38poor patients he had to paint it out42:41anyway very interesting character and he42:45wrote a number of verses about life42:51changing evolution but he had no42:53mechanism and that was led to his42:56grandson Charles over there who gathered42:59enormous evidence first of all the fact43:02that based on fossil evidence that there43:05had been evolution and secondly during43:09his voyage on the Beagle and secondly43:12that he proposed a mechanism and the43:15mechanism was natural selection and it43:18goes a bit like this actually completely43:21like this I don’t mean a bit like this43:22within a species there are variants they43:27have differences these are due to43:30inheritable differences they’re not ones43:32where if you grow a plant in the Sun or43:35not in the Sun they are inherited43:37differences those variants genetically43:41inherited ones which are most successful43:44reproduce more therefore pass on more43:48genes to the next population in the next43:51generation and therefore there is43:53selection for changes in characters and43:56over time that will lead to speciation44:00and therefore evolution and it also44:03accounts for why you can get exquisite44:06at that44:08and that we see here he studied these44:11finches in the Galapagos and came to the44:14conclusion that they were beautifully44:17adapted to weather they fed on insects44:21or broke nuts and I put up there a44:23series of tools which are also perfectly44:26adapted for what they do so two things44:31he argued that there was evolution so44:34all life was related this is the one44:37figure in the Origin of Species related44:41by descent and secondly there is44:44beautiful adaption and the reason why44:48this is controversial is because it can44:52lead to apparently purposeful behaviors44:55and if you have purposeful behavior44:59normally it’s easier to describe that45:02because somebody’s made it and there’s45:04the famous story of the Reverend William45:07Paley finding a watch on the path and45:10when he saw the watch he said this had45:12to be created and it when you see45:15animals and plants perfectly adapted he45:18argued therefore they had to be created45:20but what Darwin’s idea of natural45:23selection showed is that you could45:25evolve by natural selection45:28apparently purpose without having to45:31postulate a creator it would come45:33naturally from that now how can it45:37actually occur well it occurs because45:42life reproduces it has a hereditary45:45system based on genes which determine45:48what life is like and it has variability45:51upon which natural selection can work45:53and there I’ve turned this into single45:56cells and what you see here is a cell I45:59hope it’s visible behind me which starts46:02being orange and ends up being red at46:05least on the right hand side you see46:07that okay the idea is this that you have46:10genes they’re replicated you pick up an46:14alteration what we’d call a mutation and46:16that leads46:18to the coat of the cell being read46:21rather than orange and red cells have a46:24reproductive advantage so over time you46:27replace the orange population with a red46:29one okay so that’s a simple evolution by46:33natural selection and what we have here46:35is everything you need to evolve you46:39have and that scene in cells you have46:41genes are the hereditary system they46:44show variation because I’m not copied46:46completely precisely or they’re damaged46:48by external fourth x-rays or sunlight46:53and then that can lead to evolution by46:58natural selection I want to finish this47:00part with a quote this is the old47:04Charles Darwin the one that we tend to47:07think of and it’s a bit it’s the last47:09sentence of the Origin of Species47:11because he wanted to show that he could47:14produce laws in biology just like Newton47:17could do it in physics and he states47:20whilst his planet has been gone cycling47:22on according to the fixed law of gravity47:26obviously reflecting Newton from so47:29simple a beginning endless forms most47:32beautiful and most wonderful have been47:35and are being evolved it’s a beautiful47:39ending to a book I wish I could write47:43like that but if I did it would be47:45edited out as being pompous or or not47:49entirely relevant I get it all the time47:54of course no I’ve told you about some48:00ideas which are relevant and I’m about48:02to do a sort of synthesis of them to sum48:06up but before I do that I just want to48:09make one or two comments about some life48:12forms which are difficult to know48:14whether are alive or not alive of course48:18there’s no simple answers here but48:19viruses are the critical one this is a48:23bacteriophage which is a virus that48:25lives inside bacteria but we have48:27viruses in us as well48:30viruses have a nucleic acid genome it48:34can be based on DNA or RNA both work and48:38they contain that genome genes encoding48:42components of the virus they undergo48:45evolution by natural selection we see48:47that with for example how the flu virus48:50changes all the time every generation so48:53that undergoing evolution by natural48:55selection which you could argue is a49:01very important principle for defining49:04life it was one that was actually49:07proposed by Hermann Muller he was a 1949:12genesis in the middle 99 20th century49:16because he defined life as living things49:19have properties which allow them to49:21undergo natural selection and therefore49:24do evolve he simply took Darwin’s idea49:26and turned it into a sort of a principle49:30oh I should have said darling wasn’t the49:33first person to think of natural49:35selection should have said that it was49:37published in 1831 by a man called49:40Matthews who was writing a book about49:43ships timbers and how to grow it it was49:46only one side so it was nothing like49:48Darwin but he did have the he did have49:52the principle and he wrote to Darwin49:56after Origin of Species and said you49:58might be interested in reading this and50:00Darwin in the second edition actually50:02acknowledged this and of course the50:05story of him also Alfred Wallace who had50:08the same idea when in a malarial fever50:10is well known back to viruses virus is50:15evolved by natural selection so they50:17pass if you like them will err tests but50:20they can only reproduce themselves where50:22it they when they’re in the side the50:25cells of other living things they’re50:27completely dependent upon it and they do50:30so by hijacking the cells molecular50:32machinery to copy the virus’s genome and50:36to copy and to make the components that50:38in case that virus so this means a virus50:41cannot operate separately for50:44another living being its host it’s50:46completely dependent upon another living50:49entity so is it truly alive or isn’t it50:53well it’s not a clear there’s no clear50:56answer about this but I want to say50:58something that generally isn’t discussed51:00in thinking about this it’s important to51:02remember that other life forms are also51:05to greater or lesser extent often51:08dependent on other living things it’s51:11not just viruses that have such a51:13dependency we have many parasites that51:16live inside the cells of bodies or51:19animals or plants or fungi which are51:21living and depending upon them this51:25dependency is less total than it is for51:28a virus but it’s in the same direction51:30even ourselves we cannot make all the51:34chemicals we need we get them from some51:37other living organisms we can’t make51:39certain amino acids efficiently we have51:42to eat them and we eat them from plants51:45and animals that actually do make them51:48so we are also not entirely independent51:52of other living organisms even free51:55living microbes are dependent on51:57molecules made by other living organisms52:00bacteria fungi and so on and require52:04glucose ammonia generally made from52:07other living organisms particularly52:09plants which use the energy of the Sun52:12to make biomolecules from simple52:15chemicals including from the carbon52:18dioxide in the air or nitrogen which is52:22in turn actually made by bacteria found52:25in the roots of certain plants what I’m52:28trying to stress here and as I said it’s52:31not normally sort of recognised what we52:34really have is a graded spectrum of52:36living organisms from viruses which are52:39obviously utterly dependent through two52:42plants which are almost completely52:44independent on a wide range in before in52:47the case of the virus the dependency is52:50strong in other it’s weak52:53but they all share attributes of life52:57and we52:57you want to draw the line it’s up to you53:00and it depends really on your psychology53:04are you in your taxonomy do you like53:06splitting things up or do you like53:08putting them together I like putting53:11them together and saying they’re all53:13life but some require other life forms53:16to fully operate but actually all life53:19on the earth is fundamentally connected53:23it’s also fundamentally related as a53:26result of evolution there is a great53:28interdependency of all living forms on53:31our planet now I’m going to finish with53:36principles and I’m going to describe six53:39principles which I think are important53:42for thinking about life the first one is53:46simply really a description I’ve53:48discussed all of these things before53:50it’s just really to try and put it53:52together living organisms have these53:55properties they maintain themselves they53:58grow they can organize themselves54:00they’re exquisite doing that54:02self-organization they can reproduce54:04make precise copies of themselves they54:06have heredity and they’re highly diverse54:08this is what we have to explain these54:12are the attributes of life secondly life54:16and this is critical this is the Muller54:19statement life evolves by natural54:22selection through reproduction heredity54:25and the variability of the heredity54:29system now by doing this they acquire54:34purpose they are entities that can build54:38and maintain themselves and they have54:40these attributes that allows them to54:42actually do that and therefore to evolve54:45but it’s the way purposeful behavior can54:48arise without having to invoke a creator54:51so it’s critical the third one the cell54:54is the basic unit of life separate from54:57the environment but in communication54:59with the environment this is clearly55:02required to cope with the second law of55:04thermodynamics and you have a bounded55:07entity that can make complex55:10a complex entity to produce the things55:15that you see on that slide principles55:20for life is based on carbon Pullip55:24polymer chemistry we have lipid55:27membranes built on carbon that separates55:30the cells hereditary material built on55:33carbon polymers that makes DNA makes RNA55:36we have enzymes built on protein carbon55:40polymers which easily give rise to55:44chemical reactions so polymer chemistry55:48can give rise to complex chemical55:51reactions once nucleic acids store55:55information in linear chains of DNA55:59bases integrating all these functions56:03together is needed and what a living56:09organism does is to gather information56:12on inputs from within itself and from56:14outside itself processes them stores56:17them uses it to instruct the cells to56:21behave in particular ways all of this is56:24generated by polymer chemistry and I56:29don’t need to repeat it but the beauty56:32of it the stable chemical structure of56:34nucleic acid chemically inactive56:36beautiful for storing information so56:39easily translated into the chemically56:42reactive proteins that we see there in56:46living things final point life is56:49related and to everything else on the56:53planet and it’s highly interconnected56:56and we are dependent to varying extents56:59upon all other life-forms on the planet57:01we are all part of an ecosystem I didn’t57:06put it up here but just to stress all57:08life has to use energy to organize57:12itself their energy ultimately comes57:15mostly from the Sun through light and57:18photosynthesis generating high energy57:22compound57:23but it can also come from heat from57:25geothermal sources where there’s57:27life-forms that depend upon that so this57:31is what I want you to think about in57:33principles underlying life but I want to57:36end with something a little bit more57:38almost philosophical I think those57:44principles we’ve talked about here are57:46likely to be found in other life forms57:50should they exist um in somewhere else57:54in the universe I think in particularly57:57important is polymers because of the way58:00it connects information to chemical58:03reactions and I think that’s something58:04that we is really quite profound if you58:07think about it but if we go to if we58:10consider our planet it is of course the58:12only corner of the universe where we58:15know for certain at the moment at least58:17that life exists and we know as I58:20started that it is extraordinary is58:23extraordinarily diverse and we can make58:27sense of it and making sense of it by58:29the way is fun it’s it’s rather central58:32to our culture and our civilization I58:35mean we have to know it I mean it’s58:38important to us we know that we’re58:41related to the rest of life on the58:42planet we also know we’re deeply58:45connected to the rest of life on the58:48planet as far as we are aware we are the58:52only life-forms on this planet who can58:54see this deep connectivity and reflect58:57on what it means I would also argue we59:02have a particular responsibility because59:05of all of this for life on this planet59:07it’s made up of our relatives some of59:10them quite distant but they are all in59:12some sense our relatives and it we are59:17interconnected with it I want to leave59:20you with this thought we need to care59:22about life we need to care about it and59:27we need to care for it and to do that we59:30need to understand it and I hope you59:32understand it a bit better at the end of59:34this talk and at the beginning59:36thank you very much59:37[Applause]
Q&A: What is Life? – With Paul Nurse
Note his answer to the question “what is death?”
Transcript
[Music]00:08Darwyn00:09yeah sentence yeah continuing yeah00:14what are we turning into yeah well um we00:22haven’t been long on the planet of00:23course only one hundred to two hundred00:26thousand years as a species and we’ve00:28only taken had such an effect on the00:34planet and ourselves in really the last00:35couple of hundred years but the question00:38is a really important one we now because00:41of the knowledge have abilities and I00:43think this is the point to change all00:45sorts of things that break us from some00:48of the things I’ve been talking about we00:52are able to cure diseases people can00:55survive who wouldn’t have survived00:57before we are having huge effects on the01:01planet as we read daily what I think01:04about it is it’s easy to sometimes get a01:09bit depressed by that but what is good01:13about it is that we actually take01:15responsibility for our fellow human01:18beings we now have the ability to do it01:20if we were a hunter-gatherer 30,000 BC01:24we might have wanted to be able to01:26protect and take responsibility for our01:29loved ones but if they had a bacterial01:31infection they were gone now we can do01:34something about it so I don’t look upon01:36it quite as negatively as some because01:38we have become more humane and civilized01:40and better people as a consequence of01:43that knowledge and we have to use it to01:45protect our fellow human beings rather01:49than perhaps worry too much that with01:51somehow becoming weaker I think we’re01:53better because of it rather than worse01:56yes right in the balcony please can you02:01wave I’ve got you Oh up there oh my02:08goodness02:10yes hello its carbon the only basis for02:13life I mean I’ve read all the things02:15about silicon beastly is that science02:17fiction or do you think that is in any02:19way maybe I need that repeating is02:26carbon the only real obviously a02:29carbon-based life-form yeah is that the02:31only basis for life and one reads02:34various bits and bobs about silicon02:36being a possibility is that something02:38you think you mean so what’s the02:40question about whether carbon is the02:41only base yes well um it may not of02:45course be I think polymers are important02:48for the because of the connection which02:51actually I only sort of realized in the02:53last year or two because of the02:55connection between information and02:56chemistry which is critical in life so I03:00think polymers are important I think you03:03could imagine different types of carbon03:06chemistry based on polymers we we have03:09amino acid ones and nucleotide bases I03:11could imagine different ones that might03:14form the basis if we’re thinking of a03:16different element science fiction03:19writers love silicon so you’ll always be03:23reading about silicon now silicon03:25doesn’t work terribly well in the03:27environment on earth there’s far more03:28silicon and carbon on earth for example03:31but carbon is the form that we have here03:34silicon doesn’t have the same stable03:39chemical properties in the same way as03:41carbon does and it may be more difficult03:44to make complex chemical structures with03:46silicon however I’m thinking of it in03:49terms of the sorts of environments we03:52have on earth maybe you know on a moon03:56going around Saturn the conditions of04:00either high temperature or cold04:02temperature or whatever might lead to a04:04different way of thinking about that04:06so I’m open-minded about it but I would04:09say in conditions like we have on earth04:12Carvin I think is probably the best Ori04:19do you think there’s any possibility04:21that we will find life on Mars04:24life on Mars is there any possibility we04:27might find it tomorrow’s rover will find04:29something well wouldn’t it be great if04:31we found it and wouldn’t it be great if04:34it evolved from something different but04:39we’ve got no sign of it yet and of04:42course NASA and others have been looking04:46for it I suspect not I suspect not but04:53it’s not very confident I mean and I04:56really wish there was fun04:58I mean because then we could sequence it05:00no we have a question second third row05:05back please05:07the lady 5in thank you thank you very05:12much interesting summarizing all the05:14qualities and characteristics of life05:17can you just take it one step further05:19and tell us please what is death what is05:23see is the next step05:29it was all going so well it’s something05:34close to when I feel like sometimes on05:37Sunday morning after a rather bad night05:41before you know it’s interesting because05:43I vitalism you know the vital spark of05:47life but you know if you have a pet cat05:50and it’s alive and then it dies you know05:54what is the just you know what happens05:56there and you sort of understand it in05:58terms of vitals I’m a spark has gone and06:00we sort of I think the questions quite a06:04difficult one06:05what does lead to death and of course we06:07could now go to that cat and take cells06:09from it and we could grow them so06:12they’re not dead yet and we now would be06:14able probably to make a cat from it and06:18so we could reproduce it so modern06:20biology is beginning to make these06:23questions even more complicated and the06:28way I sort of think about it is an06:30organism it Lots made of lots of cells06:34it has to work as a coordinated whole06:38just as a cell has to and when that06:41coordination breaks down and what I06:43suspect is we’re back to information06:45again it’s when the information stops06:48being transferred efficiently and06:49effectively that which might be a06:52consequence of chemical damage then the06:55whole thing collapses and I you know06:58it’s and the reason I think a bit like07:00that is you know I mean how I’m hopeless07:03at computers you know but how often do07:05they just go bump you know and you get07:08that little round thing going round and07:09round on the screen and basically it’s07:13it’s had a fit and it sort of had it you07:16know and I think it’s a breakdown in the07:18information and the way information is07:20managed and I think that might be key07:23key to it in fact so absolutely that is07:26not the absence of life what is there07:27different it’s not really07:30absence of life um well I’m I don’t I’m07:35not gonna talk with any confidence here07:37about this but I’m just thinking I would07:41just think about this07:43if you have a complex machine which is07:44connected in all sorts of interesting07:46ways managing information and so on then07:49if one component went wrong07:52chemically I don’t think that would07:54cause death but if you get a breakdown07:57on the communication which would then07:59rapidly spread I think that would that08:02would be a problem and that’s how I08:04think about it in a Cell often of course08:07when people die it’s when you know that08:10the brain dies and so you stop but I08:16think it is a it is probably a breakdown08:18of information and where it’s managed08:20but I’m being spellcheck the cat right08:24Christina I know it’s it’s very hard to08:32speculate on how life got started but08:35yeah how would you feel would speculate08:37on given the right chemistry and energy08:41and time that life is and the processes08:44of life were inevitable to emerge or a08:46wildly improbable event well as you say08:49it’s very it’s very difficult issue I08:51mean it’s extremely interesting one than08:53some of my colleagues across the world08:56do work on this I think the best idea is09:01that primitive life may have been based09:04on RNA I mean that’s what they tend to09:08argue and the reason they do that is09:11because although I made this clear09:13distinction between DNA being chemically09:16inactive and proteins being chemically09:19active and that you can then turn one09:21into the other by coding if you take RNA09:25which is the intermediate step RNA has09:28the ability to code and it is also in a09:34limited way chemically active so it’s09:36not too chemically active to make it09:38sort of impossible as a place to store09:40information and it has the possibility09:43that if you make one molecule that can09:45encode information and also carry out09:48chemical activities then you simplify09:52the beginnings of life09:55it doesn’t really get to grips with you09:59know cells and the the way metabolism10:05and all these things but I think it does10:07make a stab at the the code script10:10problem in in an interesting way10:13people also imagine that maybe life10:17evolved in geothermal vents props based10:22on RNA but getting energy from the10:24geothermal vents getting components from10:27the chemistry that can go on when those10:29geothermal vents so it’s dependent upon10:33non-life chemistry and that somehow that10:36could have produced it but we’re trying10:38to imagine what happened 3.5 billion10:42years ago and it’s it’s tough right10:52humans evolving our humans evolving it’s10:58related a bit to the question we had10:59earlier yes we are evolving and we’re11:02involving under different circumstances11:03than we did when we were11:05hunter-gatherers for 200,000 years but11:09yes we are evolving we and actually11:15there’s a whole new study we can now11:17extract DNA from bones of ancient humans11:21so we can actually track its11:23extraordinary you may have read about it11:25but we can track genetic changes in the11:28in the past from 1020 thousand years ago11:32and in fact in my Institute which is the11:37Francis Crick Institute up the road11:40we’ve just hired a an ancient DNA person11:45he’s not ancient he’s actually roll a11:47young but he works on ancient DNA and he11:51he’s going to be studying the11:53evolutionary changes that occurred11:55during the Agricultural Revolution when11:58we change from hunter gathering to12:01growing crops completely different diet12:05and also12:07the changes as you go through urban12:09ization where you get crowding and12:11therefore a much more prone to12:13infectious disease and we we have no12:16idea what changes occurred during that12:18time now we can address them and because12:20many of our diseases now are related to12:23dietary things this is going to be12:24extremely interesting and so that will12:27be an example of evolution in real time12:31or at least the last 20,000 years anyway12:34do we have any questions from this side12:36we do so on the very back row please12:42thanks and if cells can develop12:45according to the information storage or12:48the cold script can we do anything about12:50the cancer cells eg modifying12:53information and stop them from growing12:56again my translator I’m not very good at13:01this game13:02so anyway can we do anything about13:03cancer cells with our understanding in13:05terms of being able to all those yeah13:07thanks sorry13:08it’s night I suffer from tinnitus so13:11I’ve got noises in my head all the time13:12I’m waiting for them to change into13:14voices then I know I’m in real trouble13:17so that’s the reason now this is very13:21interesting because the first thing to13:22say is cancer is actually a consequence13:25of evolution by natural selection people13:28don’t see it that way but what you have13:30cancer is a genetic disease where a cell13:34undergoes genetic changes in the body13:37and those genes are the changed escape13:40the normal controls that stop it13:42dividing in the wrong places and at the13:44wrong time and because it starts to grow13:48and divide in the wrong place and at the13:51wrong time it can form a tumor and it is13:53an exact example of evolution by natural13:55selection because it is selecting if you14:00like for growth and as a consequence of14:04that it’s the same process that leads to14:08the creativity of life if you like and14:10how life forms got which is also one of14:12our scourge is it’s a sort of based on14:15the the you know this principle of14:18evolution by natural selection14:21now having said all of that in trying to14:25treat it what we need to address is what14:28genes are altered in cancers and what14:32are the consequences of that and there’s14:34been incredible progress in that in14:36since I started as a post graduate in14:39the last 40-plus years so we now know14:43the 3 400 or whatever it is genes that14:46are important for cancer we know how14:48they often change and damage themselves14:51or not damage themselves will become14:53damaged and we now know what pathways14:56and so on they disturb now this14:58knowledge is still rudimentary but over15:02time we will gather enough knowledge to15:04be able to intervene with them but15:06because cancer is not one disease it’s15:09hundreds of diseases because different15:11genes can cause it there will never be a15:14magic bullet for it there’ll be no15:16penicillin there’ll have to be special15:19interventions often drug using drugs but15:23there’s different ways of doing it also15:25stimulating the immune system so you can15:27attack cancer cells but they will almost15:30certainly have to be devised for each15:32individual cancer so it’s going to be a15:35long haul but I know I’m confident we15:38will gradually make progress in the15:39coming decades support you have not only15:44informed us this evening15:46you have entertained us this evening and15:48our minds have been stretched by you15:50grappling with what is arguably one of15:52the biggest questions that we will ever15:54pose what is life we’re very very15:56grateful to you for your elucidation15:58this evening and if we could thank15:59support in the most usual way16:03[Applause]16:13you
