Paul Nurse’s version?

Living things are extraordinary and our quest to define life is one of the most fundamental questions in biology.

Sir Paul Nurse is a geneticist and cell biologist whose discoveries have helped to explain how the cell controls its cycle of growth and division. Working in fission yeast, he showed that the cdc2 gene encodes a protein kinase, which ensures the cell is ready to copy its DNA and divide. Paul’s findings have broader significance since errors in cell growth and division may lead to cancer and other serious diseases. He was awarded the 2001 Nobel Prize in Physiology or Medicine, alongside Tim Hunt and Leland H. Hartwell. This Discourse was filmed in the Ri on 25 October 2019.

what is life
that’s going to be the question that I’m going to consider this evening it’s one of the most fundamental questions in biology
I think many would argue it is the most fundamental question in bio biology
01:25
life is very difficult to define
19:13
the importance of information encoded in those molecules
00:05
[Music]
00:10
what is life that’s going to be the
00:15
question that I’m going to consider this
00:18
evening it’s one of the most fundamental
00:21
questions in biology I think many would
00:24
argue it is the most fundamental
00:26
question in bio biology I’m going to
00:30
talk mostly about life on planet Earth
00:34
but the question also makes us think
00:37
about life elsewhere in the universe
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should it exist perhaps built in
00:43
different ways from that on our own
00:45
planet before I begin I want to strength
00:50
stress something living things are
00:53
extraordinary they are completely
00:56
extraordinary they are entities that can
01:00
maintain themselves they can grow they
01:04
can organize themselves construct
01:06
themselves reproduce into two identical
01:10
copies or close to identical copies they
01:14
pass on their characteristics to their
01:16
progeny they are also extremely diverse
01:21
and it so happens which is why this
01:25
lecture is difficult is that life is
01:28
very difficult to define now the
01:33
approach I’m going to use is to examine
01:36
some of the great ideas of biology five
01:40
great ideas of biology which
01:43
characterize the attributes of life I’m
01:46
going to give you a little history of
01:48
where those ideas came from and then I’m
01:52
going at the end or towards the end of
01:55
my lecture to derive from those five
01:58
great ideas some core principles with
02:02
the hope of getting closer to defining
02:05
what life is I hope you noticed the
02:09
careful way I said that sentence
02:12
clothes hope of getting closer rather
02:15
than actually answering the question now
02:18
of course I’m not the first to ask this
02:22
question it’s been wrestled with by
02:25
scientists over the ages and my first
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slide here was is the first page of a
02:31
very influential contribution published
02:34
by scrolling her heel the uncertainty
02:37
principle a physicist who dabbled in
02:42
biology in his later life and published
02:45
a book this book here in 1944 it’s a
02:49
75th anniversary of this book based on
02:53
lectures he gave in Dublin in 1943 he
02:58
was particularly concerned with how
03:01
living organisms maintained order as a
03:06
physicist he was particularly interested
03:08
in the second law of thermodynamics and
03:11
he wanted to know how life could escape
03:15
the decay into chaos that is of course
03:19
enshrined in that particular law and how
03:22
to do it across generations this is two
03:26
quotes I’ve taken from that 1944 book
03:30
which actually is quite a good read I I
03:34
still read it occasionally and in fact
03:37
it’s on my kitchen table because of this
03:39
talk at this very moment the first there
03:44
an organism’s astonishing gift of
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controlling a stream of order on itself
03:50
and thus escaping the decay into atomic
03:53
chaos the second law as I just said he’s
03:57
also interested in how this order
03:58
displays the power of maintaining itself
04:01
and producing orderly events and this is
04:05
what I’m going to be talking about in
04:08
the rest of this lecture I’m going to
04:11
start it with the cell the cell as the
04:16
basic unit of life as I said I’m going
04:20
to give a some background to this some
04:23
history
04:25
the soul was first observed by Robert
04:29
Hooke in and who he published his
04:32
observations in 1665 and you’ll see here
04:36
on the left the black and white picture
04:38
of what he saw he took a piece of cork
04:42
cut it with a razor put it under a
04:44
microscope similar to the one you see in
04:46
this picture behind me and saw lots of
04:50
little boxes I put on the right there
04:54
a modern scanning e/m picture it’s
04:58
pretty similar really not too much
05:01
advancing 350 years what he saw there
05:05
were rows of boxes he called themselves
05:08
after the Latin cellar for small cubicle
05:12
and soon after him a Dutch Draper Lowen
05:18
Hooke lived in Delft quite a humble man
05:21
made even better microscopes then then
05:26
hook and he scraped between his teeth
05:30
and put it under one of his microscopes
05:33
and what did he see he saw bacteria the
05:38
very first observations of single-celled
05:42
microbial life the charming pictures
05:45
here can you see
05:46
I think it’s Figure B obviously they
05:49
were swimming around and did a
05:50
loop-the-loop there as you can see lone
05:54
hook was a bit disturbed by this because
05:56
he’s rather proud of his clean teeth and
05:59
I think was disturbed at discovering all
06:02
this life in between his his teeth he
06:07
sent all his observations to the Royal
06:09
Society as a thousand letters they’re
06:11
describing his observations we don’t
06:16
have a reliable portrait of him but he
06:21
was the neighbor of Vermeer the famous
06:25
Delft painter and Vermeer and usually
06:28
did two paintings of a scientists at
06:32
you’re a geographer and an astronomer
06:34
and I like to think this might be loan
06:37
hook that
06:37
looking at here I should say as I am a
06:40
scientist there’s not one ounce of
06:42
evidence in favor in favor of that
06:47
now although cells were observed just
06:52
before the beginning of the 18th century
06:56
science developed over quite a long time
06:59
and a couple of centuries in fact and
07:03
eventually led to two concepts the first
07:07
concept was stated here by Theodor
07:11
Schwann a German zoologist he published
07:14
in German this is a translation here
07:16
from 1839 we have seen that all
07:19
organisms are composed essentially of
07:22
like parts namely of cells in other
07:25
words the cell is the basic structural
07:28
unit of life very critical the second
07:32
observation the second concept I want
07:34
you to be aware of a few years later
07:36
another German Rudolf Birkhoff
07:38
politician and scientists founder of
07:41
pathology by the way he stated it’s a
07:44
little different every animal appears as
07:47
a sum of vital units living units each
07:49
of which bears in itself the complete
07:52
characteristics of life in other words
07:55
the cell is also the basic functional
07:58
unit of life all growth and development
08:02
of life is in fact based on the cell
08:04
here’s a fertilized mammalian egg with
08:08
the sperm bashing on the door of the of
08:11
the egg and if I haven’t inspired an
08:15
interest in you yet let me remind you
08:18
all that you once all looked like this
08:21
you were once all a single cell through
08:25
growth and repeated reproduction of
08:28
cells we produce here I mammalian embryo
08:31
and then eventually ourselves now what
08:34
do we learn by cell from from from this
08:36
discussion about cells about life and
08:39
what it is this is a modern multicolored
08:43
version of cells well a couple of
08:45
conclusions the first point is as I have
08:50
just said
08:51
as the basic structural and functional
08:52
unit of life it is the simplest entity
08:56
which exhibits the characteristics of
08:59
life it can maintain itself it can grow
09:02
it can self-organize it reproduces and
09:04
it has heredity what this means is if we
09:08
try and simplify the discussion that if
09:12
we can understand cells then we’re very
09:15
close to understanding life because it
09:17
is the simplest entity that has the
09:19
characteristics of life and that means
09:21
cells are going to figure quite a lot in
09:23
this talk but what I say about cells
09:26
applies to living organisms as well
09:28
including ourselves the second point is
09:32
that the cell is bounded it’s separate
09:36
from its environment
09:38
you saw that obviously with the
09:40
microbial cells the bacteria but it’s
09:42
also the case for all our cells which
09:45
are all surrounded by a membrane and
09:50
separate from the rest of the
09:52
environment why is that important it’s
09:55
important because it allows order to be
09:59
generated within the cell giving rise to
10:01
complexity without contravening the
10:05
second law of thermodynamics it’s an
10:08
isolated system which creates order as a
10:12
consequence of further disorder in the
10:14
environment so in fact the problems with
10:17
second law of thermodynamics that
10:18
physicists always worry about simply
10:21
isn’t an issue because of the cell as a
10:23
bounded entity although it’s a bounded
10:27
intimate entity it has to be in
10:30
communication with the environment it’s
10:34
semi permeable the membrane is is
10:37
literally semi permeable and it builds
10:40
up within itself components that it
10:43
takes from outside in its environment it
10:47
produces Monteux it takes them off a
10:54
concentration gradient it requires
10:56
energy to do that but the important
10:59
point is that being isolated from the
11:02
environment
11:03
complexity can arise so we don’t have to
11:05
worry about the problem that certainly
11:09
was of great interest for Schrodinger
11:12
however he said something a little more
11:15
he was interested in how that orders
11:18
maintained generation after generation
11:20
and he came up with the idea that maybe
11:25
there was a code script and this is
11:28
another quote from that little book
11:30
these chromosomes we kind of come to
11:35
chromosomes in a moment containing some
11:36
kind of code script the entire pattern
11:39
of the individuals future development in
11:42
function is related to a code script and
11:44
he goes on to speculate that it may be
11:47
what he called an a periodic solid it
11:51
was trying to explain how order could
11:53
persist and he speculated that that code
11:57
script underpinned the development and
11:59
function of the living organism now this
12:02
is essentially the second great idea of
12:07
biology I want to talk about which is
12:08
the gene as the basis of heredity now
12:13
this came about from work from the abbot
12:17
of a monastery in Bruno now the Czech
12:22
Republic he was a monk when he did what
12:25
I’m about to describe but then became
12:27
the abbot he was trained as a physicist
12:33
and he got very interested in doing
12:36
crosses with plants to try and
12:40
understand heredity and how
12:42
characteristics were transferred down
12:45
over the generations I visited it in
12:48
1981 at the height of the Cold War I
12:51
took this photograph of his garden
12:54
actually it was quite a big gun wasn’t
12:57
used for growing things to eat it was
13:00
used for growing his plants for his
13:02
experiments and next door to it was a
13:04
greenhouse unfortunately dismantled of
13:06
similar size I mean frankly there was
13:09
major investment from the Justinian
13:12
monastery in scientific research quite
13:15
extreme
13:16
ordinary in the 1860s and from that
13:19
research he came up with the laws of
13:22
genetics and he did that and he was
13:25
successful where many others had failed
13:27
for several reasons he did trial crosses
13:31
with a range of plants and decided only
13:34
to work on those which he could make
13:35
sense of you could say that he was
13:38
cheating in some ways but actually in
13:40
biology which is so complex you have to
13:44
choose material and problems that you
13:46
can solve remember science is the art of
13:49
the soluble and it’s no point wandering
13:52
around if you can make no sense of it
13:53
and he ended up choosing the P and he
13:56
chose the P because it was easy to
13:58
characterize the the different traits of
14:01
the plants I’ll show you some in a
14:04
moment and because he was a physicist he
14:07
counted what he saw he was quantitative
14:09
so you can see here some of the
14:12
different characteristics here we have
14:14
flowers of different colors we have tall
14:16
plants short plants we have seeds that
14:19
are not shown here which are rough or
14:22
smooth now because he worked on peas and
14:27
these different characteristics the
14:30
differences were decided by single genes
14:33
it became easy for him to analyze what
14:37
they produce for the very simple ratios
14:39
that you may have read about in school
14:41
like three to one one to one nine three
14:45
three to one and what you need to take
14:48
home from that is simply that he could
14:51
explain it all if what was the basis of
14:54
this were particles particles that were
14:57
being segregated during the during the
15:01
crosses that he was carrying out these
15:04
particles a particular model for
15:07
inheritance of what we’d know as genes
15:09
today interestingly nobody sublime
15:13
didn’t notice of what he published it
15:17
lay there for 35 years and then it was
15:21
discovered by three geneticists at
15:26
roughly the same time who got the same
15:28
results
15:29
they weren’t always so generous in
15:32
acknowledging their predecessor and
15:34
there’s a story around that but I’m not
15:37
going to sully science by telling you
15:39
about it all you have to conclude is
15:42
that they’re human beings just like we
15:43
are today and we’re not perfect then it
15:47
was taken very seriously why we don’t
15:50
really know but several things happened
15:52
between 1865 and 1900 1900 and – the
15:57
first is that chromosomes were
15:59
discovered this is a late 19th century
16:02
picture of chromosomes in onion root tip
16:07
cells which is where I first saw cells
16:10
when I was at school in Northwest London
16:13
did a squash and saw these these
16:15
chromosomes here and these chromosomes
16:19
were postulated to be the place where
16:23
genes were located which were being
16:26
separated every time a cell underwent
16:28
division then of course that led
16:31
subsequently to the idea in fact the
16:35
fact that these chromosomes and genes
16:37
were made of nucleic acid DNA that was
16:43
discovered by Avery working in the
16:46
Rockefeller Institute in New York which
16:49
I led for eight years from years ago
16:51
actually and that showed that DNA was
16:55
the chemical basis of heredity did a
17:00
beautiful experiment took a DNA from a
17:03
pneumococcus a bacterium of a not of a
17:06
virulent strain basically dropped it on
17:09
a non violent strain and transferred
17:13
virulence from one to the other and it
17:15
was DNA that contained that and that’s
17:17
what showed it was DNA was the
17:20
hereditary material and then of course
17:23
what we see here is the double helix the
17:25
famous double helix structure involving
17:29
Crick and Watson based on the
17:31
experiments of of Franklin and and
17:36
others like Wilkins and
17:39
we know and I shall refer to it again a
17:42
bit later that this is the basis of
17:45
heredity and finally Crick himself
17:50
postulated what he called the central
17:54
dogma of molecular biology where the
17:58
information which I shall talk about
18:00
more stored in DNA is transcribed into
18:05
another nucleic acid RNA and then
18:07
translated into protein and that’s going
18:10
to form a central part of what I shall
18:11
say this is the basis of Schrodinger’s
18:15
code script it explains the permanence
18:18
of the heredity because it’s replicated
18:22
every time a cell and therefore organism
18:25
divides so living organisms and now we
18:29
have to think about principles are based
18:32
at least on earth on nucleic acids
18:36
nucleic acids and encode information and
18:40
they can be precisely copied because of
18:44
pairing between bases that make them up
18:48
and again I shall say a little more
18:49
about it before we do that though this
18:52
discussion has introduced two new
18:55
concepts that I want to introduce to you
18:58
the first is chemistry the chemical
19:03
aspects of living organisms are critical
19:06
for understanding life life as chemistry
19:09
the second concept is the importance of
19:13
information encoded in those molecules
19:16
and these are the two ideas are going to
19:18
discuss next and I’m going to start with
19:21
life as chemistry basically life is
19:26
based on chemistry and physics
19:29
it’s the mechanistic basis of life I
19:32
have to stress that because for many
19:36
years actually a couple of thousand
19:37
years I’m starting with Aristotle
19:41
scientists thought that the complexity
19:44
of life was so great that it could not
19:47
be explained by the laws of chemistry in
19:49
physics they proposed
19:51
vitalism that there were vital laws that
19:54
weren’t based on chemistry and physics
19:55
and that were necessary to explain that
19:59
complexity it took work by French
20:04
chemists to overturn this initially
20:07
Lavoisier although his work was
20:10
terminated because he was guillotine
20:12
because unfortunately as well as being a
20:14
scientist he was a tax collector for the
20:16
ancient regime so he lost his head and
20:20
then it was taken over by Pasteur the
20:23
famous Louis Pasteur who was working on
20:26
an applied project on why sugar beet
20:29
fermentation went wrong came to the
20:32
conclusion that it was all to do with
20:34
chemical products being made during
20:36
fermentation and came to the following
20:39
conclusion that fermentation was a
20:42
physiological act yielding chemical
20:45
products for the cell and he could then
20:48
advise the sugar be fermenters as to how
20:51
to do it and then he made a general
20:53
conclusion chemical reactions are an
20:56
expression of the life of the cell in
20:59
other words he was postulating if we
21:01
want to understand life we have to
21:03
understand the chemistry that goes on in
21:06
life I can summarize that in a different
21:09
way which is that living cells back to
21:12
cells again can be considered as a
21:14
chemical machine a complex chemical
21:19
machine including also physical
21:22
processes as well however it is a very
21:26
special sort of chemistry that we see in
21:29
living cells on this planet this
21:33
chemistry is based on carbon carbon is
21:37
made inside stars
21:39
it’s the fourteenth most common element
21:42
in the universe we are basically based
21:45
on stars sort of rather interesting idea
21:50
now what’s important is that each carbon
21:53
atom can form four chemical bonds
21:56
linking it to other atoms and it can use
21:59
two of those bonds to link to other
22:01
carbon atoms to make up chains
22:05
a sort of polymer you can see that here
22:07
there’s a backbone of carbon that makes
22:10
up a linear polymer but then it has to
22:17
free bombs which can form bonds with
22:23
other atoms such as oxygen hydrogen
22:28
carbon itself and this means that
22:31
there’s a variety of different
22:33
chemistry’s that can be put on top of
22:36
this basic polypeptide chain and that’s
22:39
because it’s made of a chain of amino
22:44
acids which are of carbon and connected
22:47
by nitrogen and there’s 20 different
22:50
amino acids that are used by life and
22:53
they had different chemical
22:54
characteristics some of them are bulky
22:56
some of them are small some of them are
22:59
siddik some of them are basic that is
23:01
their negative or positive charges
23:03
some of them like water some of them
23:05
don’t like water and all of this can
23:08
lead to a wide variety of chemical
23:10
properties and because you can build up
23:14
extremely long carbon chains
23:17
maybe I mean thousands of thousands long
23:22
then you can produce very complex
23:25
structures which can also fold up into a
23:29
three-dimensional structure now there’s
23:32
a lot going on here that is really
23:34
important to emphasize because what we
23:37
heard see here starting off with a
23:39
simple carbon polymer made up of
23:42
different amino acids you can make
23:44
elaborate molecular structures with a
23:47
variety of different chemistry’s that
23:50
can be put there that leads to a huge
23:52
variety of chemical machines and these
23:57
are the basic workhorse of life these
24:02
make up the enzymes that change other
24:04
chemicals into different chemicals they
24:07
can build up molecules they can break
24:11
down molecules
24:12
that’s as part of metabolism which in
24:17
critical for the functioning of life and
24:20
these chemical machines are so efficient
24:22
that they can operate in very gentle
24:25
conditions we sometimes try and mimic it
24:28
in rather more extreme conditions in for
24:31
example industrial chemical plants where
24:34
we have high temperatures and high
24:35
pressures and an extreme conditions but
24:39
these can operate in very gentle
24:41
conditions why is that important it’s
24:44
important because it means that within a
24:47
cell a tiny cell many hundreds in fact
24:50
thousands of chemical reactions can be
24:53
occurring in a very restricted space
24:57
because you’re not having to have high
24:58
temperatures or pressures you can have
25:00
very gentle conditions however these
25:04
reactions can only occur if there’s
25:07
different chemical micro environments so
25:12
if we look a metabolic map here each of
25:15
those dots on this map I had to learn
25:17
this as an undergraduate that’s why I
25:19
took all the names of but all these dots
25:23
are different chemical reactions and
25:24
they’re all occurring simultaneously in
25:28
the tiny structure of the cell and if
25:31
you now look at a cell you’ll see it’s
25:35
extremely complex and but what I want to
25:38
try and convince you is that actually
25:41
this complexity represents the micro
25:46
compartments of different chemistries
25:48
that are occurring on in the cells it’s
25:50
not how it’s normally explained and
25:51
that’s brought about by the proteins
25:54
themselves with different folds making
25:57
little compartments where a certain
25:59
chemistry can go on assembly of those
26:01
enzymes which result in components being
26:05
passed and molecules being passed from
26:08
one enzyme to another different membrane
26:10
components compartments as you see here
26:13
in the cell and even different colloidal
26:16
structures what we now call phase
26:18
separations so when you look at the
26:21
complexity of the cell I want you to
26:23
imagine it as many hundreds in fact
26:27
thousands of little chemical
26:30
microenvironments carrying out specific
26:32
chemical reactions adjacent to each
26:35
other connected to each other but
26:37
separate and that is needed to generate
26:40
the chemical complexity of life now
26:44
there’s a consequence of this is that
26:46
this intricate spatial organization of
26:49
the cell of these different chemistry’s
26:52
must be able to communicate across the
26:56
cell because if they don’t communicating
26:58
with each other you can’t get order so
27:01
you need compartment ation and
27:03
separation that you need also
27:06
communication what contributes to that
27:09
and that comes from physics is that
27:12
there is a skeleton within the cell made
27:15
up a different like tramway raised or
27:18
railway tracks connecting different
27:20
parts of the cell and there’s little
27:21
motors working their way through the
27:24
cell transporting different components
27:26
from one place of the cell to other
27:28
places in the cell and all of these did
27:32
need energy and in fact to maintain the
27:35
cell needs energy and there’s little
27:38
batteries in the cell as well like our
27:40
chemical batteries charged hydrogen
27:42
atoms can accumulate behind some of
27:44
these membranes and active batteries are
27:47
transferred through the membrane the
27:50
protons are charged atoms and that
27:55
produces high energy chemical bonds
27:58
which are stored for use elsewhere
28:04
communication then is critical and
28:07
communication between all these
28:09
components is dependent upon information
28:12
and the transfer of information and
28:15
that’s my next great idea in biology
28:18
that I want to explain to you as the
28:21
basis of life and that is that
28:23
biological entities are complex systems
28:27
and the information management is
28:30
crucial to understanding how they work
28:34
it won’t surprise you that this idea has
28:38
grown a lot of prominence in the age of
28:40
computing because obviously information
28:43
and the man
28:44
if information it’s critical in
28:46
computing and so there was much
28:49
discussion of this from the 1940s 1950s
28:52
and 1960s onwards but it may surprise
28:56
you to learn that the idea that light is
28:59
a complex system with these properties
29:01
has his origins with the philosopher
29:04
Kant Immanuel Kant around 1800 I found
29:09
this a big surprise he wrote a book on
29:12
on moral philosophy and for some reason
29:16
got completely distracted into talking
29:19
about the complexity of life in talking
29:22
about moral philosophy in fact although
29:29
biology can be described in terms of
29:32
chemistry as I’ve just done it often
29:34
only makes sense biologically when that
29:38
description is translated into the
29:41
management of information that sounds a
29:44
bit abstract but it’s important that you
29:46
get this for understanding life and
29:48
there’s two examples I want to use to
29:51
illustrate that and why it’s important
29:54
and the first is to go back to DNA
29:58
now I’ve already explained that DNA is
30:03
made of DNA of course but is the
30:07
hereditary material it encodes
30:10
information implicitly Mendel by the way
30:13
it was information showing the use the
30:16
word code stripped but the only made
30:18
sense back in 1865 if you saw it that
30:21
way now the double helix of DNA and you
30:24
see here being copied and because of the
30:28
DNA is like a ladder of bases there’s
30:32
four different bases and G base G will
30:36
bind to the base C and base a will bind
30:39
with base T so that if you pull that
30:41
apart you can get a perfect copy it’s a
30:44
beautiful thing and I want you to note
30:46
that those bases are all on the inside
30:49
of the polymer that sort of protected
30:52
there and that’s going to be important
30:54
in a moment now as I said we can do
30:57
describe it as I just did in terms of
30:59
chemistry but it makes sense
31:01
biologically when you recognize that
31:04
actually it’s a digital information
31:07
storage device I mean that’s what we’re
31:10
looking at here a digital information
31:12
storage device now there’s more to it
31:17
than just that because it’s organized as
31:21
a linear script now we often nearly
31:26
always order information as linear
31:30
scripts think of reading a sentence it’s
31:33
a linear script think of listening to me
31:36
talk to you they are linear scripts
31:39
think of computer code it’s a linear
31:42
script think of a polymer it’s a linear
31:46
script it is no accident that life is
31:49
built on a polymer because it is the
31:51
perfect way of storing information which
31:55
is critical for biology it’s critical
31:57
for information storage also as I
32:02
explained it gets better because the
32:05
linear DNA molecule is very stable
32:07
because the backbone is on the outside
32:10
it is not chemically reactive the
32:12
chemical reactive parts are on the
32:14
inside and are protected one with
32:16
another so it’s a very stable way of
32:18
storing that information however it
32:23
can’t do anything because it’s so stable
32:26
it cannot do anything but remember the
32:30
central dogma you go from DNA to RNA and
32:33
then you go to protein and remember what
32:36
I said about protein and I’m going to
32:38
just show you the same slides again now
32:40
you still have a polymer it still
32:43
reflects information each of those amino
32:45
acids what you put in there and the
32:47
order is determined by the base sequence
32:50
in the DNA but now everything is facing
32:53
outwards and all the chemistry is facing
32:56
the environment so you have oxygen you
32:59
have nitrogen your positive charge
33:00
negative charge much less stable but now
33:04
it can carry out chemical reactions so
33:06
what you do is you are turn
33:10
stored information in nucleic acid into
33:13
chemical actions in protein which are
33:16
needed for life so you have a storage
33:19
device which is stable and you have a
33:21
protein which are reactive and carry out
33:25
the chemistry of life this is really
33:27
fundamental in understanding life
33:30
because you can solve the problem of
33:31
information storage and you can solve
33:33
the problem also of chemical action
33:37
second example relevant for information
33:40
and making sense of biology and
33:43
information is seen with gene regulation
33:47
this was shown by Jacob Amano
33:51
who I knew at least a new couple quite
33:54
well and they did it by doing beautiful
33:57
genetics with bacteria looking at sugar
34:00
metabolism in bacteria and what they did
34:04
by abstract genetics is discovered
34:07
negative feedback control what is
34:10
negative feedback control well this is a
34:14
governor from a steam engine now you may
34:17
be like me I sort of understand most
34:19
machines built before 1900 and almost
34:23
nothing built after 1900 I took a
34:26
picture of this in New Zealand actually
34:29
it was in a steamship and I went down
34:32
and photographed it because it was such
34:34
a beautiful thing it was found on
34:36
originally on James Watts his steam
34:38
engines and we understand it the spindle
34:41
rotates the balls are thrown out they
34:45
lift a valve and that closes steam off
34:48
from going into the engine so it slows
34:50
down then the balls go back in again and
34:53
they let steam back into it and it
34:56
speeds up and this is essentially
34:58
homeostatic s– it’s maintaining a
35:01
certain in this particular case rotation
35:04
of the particular spindle and what
35:08
Jacques will mano did was to use this
35:11
principle to describe regulation and
35:14
here we’re looking at something in fact
35:18
not to do with gene regulation but it’s
35:20
the same principle
35:22
what they described where we have a
35:25
chemical AE turned into chemical be
35:27
turned into chemical see there’s enzymes
35:30
which are the green arrow and as C
35:32
accumulates it switches off the enzyme
35:35
that is catalyzing a into B and
35:38
therefore you inhibit making B you
35:42
inhibit making C and then C drops in
35:45
level you lose the inhibition up comes
35:48
the enzyme between a and B and you’ll go
35:50
back again what this is doing is
35:52
maintaining by negative feedback a
35:55
constant source of material if we look
35:58
at the bottom one we have positive
36:00
feedback loop which is the complete
36:02
opposite when you accumulate C it
36:04
switches on the enzyme going from A to B
36:07
so once you’ve started this it turns
36:09
into a switch and you cannot go back you
36:12
get the principal and life’s metabolism
36:15
and gene regulation is built on these
36:17
simple principles of this type of
36:20
feedback control now you can put them
36:22
together in all sorts of complicated
36:24
ways and a metaphor is an electronic
36:27
circuit that you see here and these
36:29
circuits which we find in life can
36:32
produce negative and positive feedback
36:34
switches timers toggles oscillators all
36:38
of which are playing a role in life now
36:43
it’s rather special just like the
36:45
chemistry is special this is special
36:47
because when we think of for example
36:50
computing which is of course the same
36:52
principle you have hardware and software
36:55
yes but hardware can’t change the
36:58
software you can make the hardware
37:00
operate in different ways but the
37:03
hardware is wired in in biology it’s
37:07
cleverer it was used the term was used
37:10
by Dennis Breyers assistants biologists
37:13
he used the word wetware rather than
37:16
hardware because the communication
37:19
between the different regulatory steps
37:22
is carried out by molecules diffusing
37:25
through water and this means you can
37:28
rewire the hardware by directing the
37:32
chemicals to go to different places so
37:34
not only
37:35
can you reprogram it through if you like
37:38
changes in software you can also change
37:40
it to changes in hardware we do not yet
37:43
begin to understand this complexity but
37:46
it’s in it’s important now networks and
37:50
be very complex we see at the top here
37:53
how we like to think about things or to
37:56
be more precise how men like to think
37:59
about things which is linear pathways
38:03
going from A to Z but the truth is in
38:06
biology it’s much more complex and
38:09
whereas we all intuitively understand
38:12
what’s happening at the top there we
38:13
don’t at the bottom it’s just too
38:15
difficult that is because of the next
38:18
idea I shall talk about that of
38:21
evolution by natural selection simply
38:23
means that you add things on to
38:25
something and make it just more complex
38:27
not necessarily the simplest way to do
38:30
something but simply a way of actually a
38:34
way of actually doing it but I want to
38:37
mention one more thing that we don’t
38:38
often think about in these pathways but
38:41
if we introduced dynamics into a pathway
38:44
that is changes in time it becomes much
38:47
richer and this is a simple example of
38:51
it we have a single at the bottom their
38:53
pathway and now we’re pulsing
38:56
information down and either frequently
38:59
or infrequently and the output can be
39:02
different depending on the oscillation
39:05
the frequency this has already been seen
39:07
why am i stressing this well I’ll tell
39:09
you why here we see a metaphor for it
39:12
can you see the traffic light if it’s a
39:15
simple on-off signal it’s either green
39:17
or red not a lot of information if you
39:20
introduce dynamics you can produce the
39:22
Morse code that you’re pulsing
39:25
information and now you can write the
39:27
works of Shakespeare now I’m not
39:29
suggesting the cell is writing the works
39:31
of Shakespeare but I am suggesting that
39:34
we haven’t got to beginning to the
39:36
bottom of how this is all operating in
39:39
cells they are absolutely extraordinary
39:42
and are the basis of how living things
39:46
work so what I’ve explained to you is
39:48
that the
39:49
where it’s working is through chemistry
39:50
plus physics and then management of
39:53
information and that’s key to
39:55
understanding what life is now my final
39:59
idea I can’t stop it this is the most
40:03
beautiful idea in biology evolution by
40:07
natural selection it’s got two aspects
40:12
life evolves and a major mechanism of it
40:17
is natural selection it’s a beautiful
40:22
idea which we mostly associate with
40:26
Charles Darwin who you see on the right
40:30
but actually the idea of evolution that
40:35
is of living organisms changing over
40:37
time was not Charles as I idea it had
40:41
been talked about for a century before
40:44
by French scientists like like Lamarck
40:49
for example but also erasmus darwin
40:52
who’s shown there on the left who was
40:55
his grandfather of charles now erasmus
40:58
is a rather entertaining character so
41:01
I’m just going to entertain you with one
41:03
of two things about erasmus he he was a
41:08
poet and he published most of his
41:10
science in blank verse I have a number I
41:15
collect books from this time and I have
41:18
a number of books published in the late
41:20
18th century and it’s all written there
41:22
in poetry with it with actually very
41:26
interesting science there as well he was
41:29
a dr. George the third asked him to be
41:33
his physician more than once but he was
41:36
a Republican and wouldn’t do it he was
41:39
in favor of female education and he set
41:43
up a girl school and wrote a book on how
41:47
women should be taught it’s the first
41:49
female school in in the UK so I’m told
41:55
he got into trouble with his local Dean
42:01
he lived in Litchfield for some of his
42:03
life in the Cathedral closed and he had
42:05
on his coach the motto everything from
42:10
Cheryl’s what did that mean if you open
42:13
up a shell you see you would see a sort
42:16
of formless blob in it yeah and what he
42:19
was arguing is all life came from
42:21
formless blobs but the Dean didn’t like
42:24
it very much
42:25
and told his richer patients that they
42:29
shouldn’t go to this rather eccentric
42:33
doctor and because he actually only
42:35
charged rich patients he didn’t charge
42:38
poor patients he had to paint it out
42:41
anyway very interesting character and he
42:45
wrote a number of verses about life
42:51
changing evolution but he had no
42:53
mechanism and that was led to his
42:56
grandson Charles over there who gathered
42:59
enormous evidence first of all the fact
43:02
that based on fossil evidence that there
43:05
had been evolution and secondly during
43:09
his voyage on the Beagle and secondly
43:12
that he proposed a mechanism and the
43:15
mechanism was natural selection and it
43:18
goes a bit like this actually completely
43:21
like this I don’t mean a bit like this
43:22
within a species there are variants they
43:27
have differences these are due to
43:30
inheritable differences they’re not ones
43:32
where if you grow a plant in the Sun or
43:35
not in the Sun they are inherited
43:37
differences those variants genetically
43:41
inherited ones which are most successful
43:44
reproduce more therefore pass on more
43:48
genes to the next population in the next
43:51
generation and therefore there is
43:53
selection for changes in characters and
43:56
over time that will lead to speciation
44:00
and therefore evolution and it also
44:03
accounts for why you can get exquisite
44:06
at that
44:08
and that we see here he studied these
44:11
finches in the Galapagos and came to the
44:14
conclusion that they were beautifully
44:17
adapted to weather they fed on insects
44:21
or broke nuts and I put up there a
44:23
series of tools which are also perfectly
44:26
adapted for what they do so two things
44:31
he argued that there was evolution so
44:34
all life was related this is the one
44:37
figure in the Origin of Species related
44:41
by descent and secondly there is
44:44
beautiful adaption and the reason why
44:48
this is controversial is because it can
44:52
lead to apparently purposeful behaviors
44:55
and if you have purposeful behavior
44:59
normally it’s easier to describe that
45:02
because somebody’s made it and there’s
45:04
the famous story of the Reverend William
45:07
Paley finding a watch on the path and
45:10
when he saw the watch he said this had
45:12
to be created and it when you see
45:15
animals and plants perfectly adapted he
45:18
argued therefore they had to be created
45:20
but what Darwin’s idea of natural
45:23
selection showed is that you could
45:25
evolve by natural selection
45:28
apparently purpose without having to
45:31
postulate a creator it would come
45:33
naturally from that now how can it
45:37
actually occur well it occurs because
45:42
life reproduces it has a hereditary
45:45
system based on genes which determine
45:48
what life is like and it has variability
45:51
upon which natural selection can work
45:53
and there I’ve turned this into single
45:56
cells and what you see here is a cell I
45:59
hope it’s visible behind me which starts
46:02
being orange and ends up being red at
46:05
least on the right hand side you see
46:07
that okay the idea is this that you have
46:10
genes they’re replicated you pick up an
46:14
alteration what we’d call a mutation and
46:16
that leads
46:18
to the coat of the cell being read
46:21
rather than orange and red cells have a
46:24
reproductive advantage so over time you
46:27
replace the orange population with a red
46:29
one okay so that’s a simple evolution by
46:33
natural selection and what we have here
46:35
is everything you need to evolve you
46:39
have and that scene in cells you have
46:41
genes are the hereditary system they
46:44
show variation because I’m not copied
46:46
completely precisely or they’re damaged
46:48
by external fourth x-rays or sunlight
46:53
and then that can lead to evolution by
46:58
natural selection I want to finish this
47:00
part with a quote this is the old
47:04
Charles Darwin the one that we tend to
47:07
think of and it’s a bit it’s the last
47:09
sentence of the Origin of Species
47:11
because he wanted to show that he could
47:14
produce laws in biology just like Newton
47:17
could do it in physics and he states
47:20
whilst his planet has been gone cycling
47:22
on according to the fixed law of gravity
47:26
obviously reflecting Newton from so
47:29
simple a beginning endless forms most
47:32
beautiful and most wonderful have been
47:35
and are being evolved it’s a beautiful
47:39
ending to a book I wish I could write
47:43
like that but if I did it would be
47:45
edited out as being pompous or or not
47:49
entirely relevant I get it all the time
47:54
of course no I’ve told you about some
48:00
ideas which are relevant and I’m about
48:02
to do a sort of synthesis of them to sum
48:06
up but before I do that I just want to
48:09
make one or two comments about some life
48:12
forms which are difficult to know
48:14
whether are alive or not alive of course
48:18
there’s no simple answers here but
48:19
viruses are the critical one this is a
48:23
bacteriophage which is a virus that
48:25
lives inside bacteria but we have
48:27
viruses in us as well
48:30
viruses have a nucleic acid genome it
48:34
can be based on DNA or RNA both work and
48:38
they contain that genome genes encoding
48:42
components of the virus they undergo
48:45
evolution by natural selection we see
48:47
that with for example how the flu virus
48:50
changes all the time every generation so
48:53
that undergoing evolution by natural
48:55
selection which you could argue is a
49:01
very important principle for defining
49:04
life it was one that was actually
49:07
proposed by Hermann Muller he was a 19
49:12
genesis in the middle 99 20th century
49:16
because he defined life as living things
49:19
have properties which allow them to
49:21
undergo natural selection and therefore
49:24
do evolve he simply took Darwin’s idea
49:26
and turned it into a sort of a principle
49:30
oh I should have said darling wasn’t the
49:33
first person to think of natural
49:35
selection should have said that it was
49:37
published in 1831 by a man called
49:40
Matthews who was writing a book about
49:43
ships timbers and how to grow it it was
49:46
only one side so it was nothing like
49:48
Darwin but he did have the he did have
49:52
the principle and he wrote to Darwin
49:56
after Origin of Species and said you
49:58
might be interested in reading this and
50:00
Darwin in the second edition actually
50:02
acknowledged this and of course the
50:05
story of him also Alfred Wallace who had
50:08
the same idea when in a malarial fever
50:10
is well known back to viruses virus is
50:15
evolved by natural selection so they
50:17
pass if you like them will err tests but
50:20
they can only reproduce themselves where
50:22
it they when they’re in the side the
50:25
cells of other living things they’re
50:27
completely dependent upon it and they do
50:30
so by hijacking the cells molecular
50:32
machinery to copy the virus’s genome and
50:36
to copy and to make the components that
50:38
in case that virus so this means a virus
50:41
cannot operate separately for
50:44
another living being its host it’s
50:46
completely dependent upon another living
50:49
entity so is it truly alive or isn’t it
50:53
well it’s not a clear there’s no clear
50:56
answer about this but I want to say
50:58
something that generally isn’t discussed
51:00
in thinking about this it’s important to
51:02
remember that other life forms are also
51:05
to greater or lesser extent often
51:08
dependent on other living things it’s
51:11
not just viruses that have such a
51:13
dependency we have many parasites that
51:16
live inside the cells of bodies or
51:19
animals or plants or fungi which are
51:21
living and depending upon them this
51:25
dependency is less total than it is for
51:28
a virus but it’s in the same direction
51:30
even ourselves we cannot make all the
51:34
chemicals we need we get them from some
51:37
other living organisms we can’t make
51:39
certain amino acids efficiently we have
51:42
to eat them and we eat them from plants
51:45
and animals that actually do make them
51:48
so we are also not entirely independent
51:52
of other living organisms even free
51:55
living microbes are dependent on
51:57
molecules made by other living organisms
52:00
bacteria fungi and so on and require
52:04
glucose ammonia generally made from
52:07
other living organisms particularly
52:09
plants which use the energy of the Sun
52:12
to make biomolecules from simple
52:15
chemicals including from the carbon
52:18
dioxide in the air or nitrogen which is
52:22
in turn actually made by bacteria found
52:25
in the roots of certain plants what I’m
52:28
trying to stress here and as I said it’s
52:31
not normally sort of recognised what we
52:34
really have is a graded spectrum of
52:36
living organisms from viruses which are
52:39
obviously utterly dependent through two
52:42
plants which are almost completely
52:44
independent on a wide range in before in
52:47
the case of the virus the dependency is
52:50
strong in other it’s weak
52:53
but they all share attributes of life
52:57
and we
52:57
you want to draw the line it’s up to you
53:00
and it depends really on your psychology
53:04
are you in your taxonomy do you like
53:06
splitting things up or do you like
53:08
putting them together I like putting
53:11
them together and saying they’re all
53:13
life but some require other life forms
53:16
to fully operate but actually all life
53:19
on the earth is fundamentally connected
53:23
it’s also fundamentally related as a
53:26
result of evolution there is a great
53:28
interdependency of all living forms on
53:31
our planet now I’m going to finish with
53:36
principles and I’m going to describe six
53:39
principles which I think are important
53:42
for thinking about life the first one is
53:46
simply really a description I’ve
53:48
discussed all of these things before
53:50
it’s just really to try and put it
53:52
together living organisms have these
53:55
properties they maintain themselves they
53:58
grow they can organize themselves
54:00
they’re exquisite doing that
54:02
self-organization they can reproduce
54:04
make precise copies of themselves they
54:06
have heredity and they’re highly diverse
54:08
this is what we have to explain these
54:12
are the attributes of life secondly life
54:16
and this is critical this is the Muller
54:19
statement life evolves by natural
54:22
selection through reproduction heredity
54:25
and the variability of the heredity
54:29
system now by doing this they acquire
54:34
purpose they are entities that can build
54:38
and maintain themselves and they have
54:40
these attributes that allows them to
54:42
actually do that and therefore to evolve
54:45
but it’s the way purposeful behavior can
54:48
arise without having to invoke a creator
54:51
so it’s critical the third one the cell
54:54
is the basic unit of life separate from
54:57
the environment but in communication
54:59
with the environment this is clearly
55:02
required to cope with the second law of
55:04
thermodynamics and you have a bounded
55:07
entity that can make complex
55:10
a complex entity to produce the things
55:15
that you see on that slide principles
55:20
for life is based on carbon Pullip
55:24
polymer chemistry we have lipid
55:27
membranes built on carbon that separates
55:30
the cells hereditary material built on
55:33
carbon polymers that makes DNA makes RNA
55:36
we have enzymes built on protein carbon
55:40
polymers which easily give rise to
55:44
chemical reactions so polymer chemistry
55:48
can give rise to complex chemical
55:51
reactions once nucleic acids store
55:55
information in linear chains of DNA
55:59
bases integrating all these functions
56:03
together is needed and what a living
56:09
organism does is to gather information
56:12
on inputs from within itself and from
56:14
outside itself processes them stores
56:17
them uses it to instruct the cells to
56:21
behave in particular ways all of this is
56:24
generated by polymer chemistry and I
56:29
don’t need to repeat it but the beauty
56:32
of it the stable chemical structure of
56:34
nucleic acid chemically inactive
56:36
beautiful for storing information so
56:39
easily translated into the chemically
56:42
reactive proteins that we see there in
56:46
living things final point life is
56:49
related and to everything else on the
56:53
planet and it’s highly interconnected
56:56
and we are dependent to varying extents
56:59
upon all other life-forms on the planet
57:01
we are all part of an ecosystem I didn’t
57:06
put it up here but just to stress all
57:08
life has to use energy to organize
57:12
itself their energy ultimately comes
57:15
mostly from the Sun through light and
57:18
photosynthesis generating high energy
57:22
compound
57:23
but it can also come from heat from
57:25
geothermal sources where there’s
57:27
life-forms that depend upon that so this
57:31
is what I want you to think about in
57:33
principles underlying life but I want to
57:36
end with something a little bit more
57:38
almost philosophical I think those
57:44
principles we’ve talked about here are
57:46
likely to be found in other life forms
57:50
should they exist um in somewhere else
57:54
in the universe I think in particularly
57:57
important is polymers because of the way
58:00
it connects information to chemical
58:03
reactions and I think that’s something
58:04
that we is really quite profound if you
58:07
think about it but if we go to if we
58:10
consider our planet it is of course the
58:12
only corner of the universe where we
58:15
know for certain at the moment at least
58:17
that life exists and we know as I
58:20
started that it is extraordinary is
58:23
extraordinarily diverse and we can make
58:27
sense of it and making sense of it by
58:29
the way is fun it’s it’s rather central
58:32
to our culture and our civilization I
58:35
mean we have to know it I mean it’s
58:38
important to us we know that we’re
58:41
related to the rest of life on the
58:42
planet we also know we’re deeply
58:45
connected to the rest of life on the
58:48
planet as far as we are aware we are the
58:52
only life-forms on this planet who can
58:54
see this deep connectivity and reflect
58:57
on what it means I would also argue we
59:02
have a particular responsibility because
59:05
of all of this for life on this planet
59:07
it’s made up of our relatives some of
59:10
them quite distant but they are all in
59:12
some sense our relatives and it we are
59:17
interconnected with it I want to leave
59:20
you with this thought we need to care
59:22
about life we need to care about it and
59:27
we need to care for it and to do that we
59:30
need to understand it and I hope you
59:32
understand it a bit better at the end of
59:34
this talk and at the beginning
59:36
thank you very much
59:37
[Applause]

Q&A: What is Life? – With Paul Nurse

Note his answer to the question “what is death?”

00:05
[Music]
00:08
Darwyn
00:09
yeah sentence yeah continuing yeah
00:14
what are we turning into yeah well um we
00:22
haven’t been long on the planet of
00:23
course only one hundred to two hundred
00:26
thousand years as a species and we’ve
00:28
only taken had such an effect on the
00:34
planet and ourselves in really the last
00:35
couple of hundred years but the question
00:38
is a really important one we now because
00:41
of the knowledge have abilities and I
00:43
think this is the point to change all
00:45
sorts of things that break us from some
00:48
of the things I’ve been talking about we
00:52
are able to cure diseases people can
00:55
survive who wouldn’t have survived
00:57
before we are having huge effects on the
01:01
planet as we read daily what I think
01:04
about it is it’s easy to sometimes get a
01:09
bit depressed by that but what is good
01:13
about it is that we actually take
01:15
responsibility for our fellow human
01:18
beings we now have the ability to do it
01:20
if we were a hunter-gatherer 30,000 BC
01:24
we might have wanted to be able to
01:26
protect and take responsibility for our
01:29
loved ones but if they had a bacterial
01:31
infection they were gone now we can do
01:34
something about it so I don’t look upon
01:36
it quite as negatively as some because
01:38
we have become more humane and civilized
01:40
and better people as a consequence of
01:43
that knowledge and we have to use it to
01:45
protect our fellow human beings rather
01:49
than perhaps worry too much that with
01:51
somehow becoming weaker I think we’re
01:53
better because of it rather than worse
01:56
yes right in the balcony please can you
02:01
wave I’ve got you Oh up there oh my
02:08
goodness
02:10
yes hello its carbon the only basis for
02:13
life I mean I’ve read all the things
02:15
about silicon beastly is that science
02:17
fiction or do you think that is in any
02:19
way maybe I need that repeating is
02:26
carbon the only real obviously a
02:29
carbon-based life-form yeah is that the
02:31
only basis for life and one reads
02:34
various bits and bobs about silicon
02:36
being a possibility is that something
02:38
you think you mean so what’s the
02:40
question about whether carbon is the
02:41
only base yes well um it may not of
02:45
course be I think polymers are important
02:48
for the because of the connection which
02:51
actually I only sort of realized in the
02:53
last year or two because of the
02:55
connection between information and
02:56
chemistry which is critical in life so I
03:00
think polymers are important I think you
03:03
could imagine different types of carbon
03:06
chemistry based on polymers we we have
03:09
amino acid ones and nucleotide bases I
03:11
could imagine different ones that might
03:14
form the basis if we’re thinking of a
03:16
different element science fiction
03:19
writers love silicon so you’ll always be
03:23
reading about silicon now silicon
03:25
doesn’t work terribly well in the
03:27
environment on earth there’s far more
03:28
silicon and carbon on earth for example
03:31
but carbon is the form that we have here
03:34
silicon doesn’t have the same stable
03:39
chemical properties in the same way as
03:41
carbon does and it may be more difficult
03:44
to make complex chemical structures with
03:46
silicon however I’m thinking of it in
03:49
terms of the sorts of environments we
03:52
have on earth maybe you know on a moon
03:56
going around Saturn the conditions of
04:00
either high temperature or cold
04:02
temperature or whatever might lead to a
04:04
different way of thinking about that
04:06
so I’m open-minded about it but I would
04:09
say in conditions like we have on earth
04:12
Carvin I think is probably the best Ori
04:19
do you think there’s any possibility
04:21
that we will find life on Mars
04:24
life on Mars is there any possibility we
04:27
might find it tomorrow’s rover will find
04:29
something well wouldn’t it be great if
04:31
we found it and wouldn’t it be great if
04:34
it evolved from something different but
04:39
we’ve got no sign of it yet and of
04:42
course NASA and others have been looking
04:46
for it I suspect not I suspect not but
04:53
it’s not very confident I mean and I
04:56
really wish there was fun
04:58
I mean because then we could sequence it
05:00
no we have a question second third row
05:05
back please
05:07
the lady 5in thank you thank you very
05:12
much interesting summarizing all the
05:14
qualities and characteristics of life
05:17
can you just take it one step further
05:19
and tell us please what is death what is
05:23
see is the next step
05:29
it was all going so well it’s something
05:34
close to when I feel like sometimes on
05:37
Sunday morning after a rather bad night
05:41
before you know it’s interesting because
05:43
I vitalism you know the vital spark of
05:47
life but you know if you have a pet cat
05:50
and it’s alive and then it dies you know
05:54
what is the just you know what happens
05:56
there and you sort of understand it in
05:58
terms of vitals I’m a spark has gone and
06:00
we sort of I think the questions quite a
06:04
difficult one
06:05
what does lead to death and of course we
06:07
could now go to that cat and take cells
06:09
from it and we could grow them so
06:12
they’re not dead yet and we now would be
06:14
able probably to make a cat from it and
06:18
so we could reproduce it so modern
06:20
biology is beginning to make these
06:23
questions even more complicated and the
06:28
way I sort of think about it is an
06:30
organism it Lots made of lots of cells
06:34
it has to work as a coordinated whole
06:38
just as a cell has to and when that
06:41
coordination breaks down and what I
06:43
suspect is we’re back to information
06:45
again it’s when the information stops
06:48
being transferred efficiently and
06:49
effectively that which might be a
06:52
consequence of chemical damage then the
06:55
whole thing collapses and I you know
06:58
it’s and the reason I think a bit like
07:00
that is you know I mean how I’m hopeless
07:03
at computers you know but how often do
07:05
they just go bump you know and you get
07:08
that little round thing going round and
07:09
round on the screen and basically it’s
07:13
it’s had a fit and it sort of had it you
07:16
know and I think it’s a breakdown in the
07:18
information and the way information is
07:20
managed and I think that might be key
07:23
key to it in fact so absolutely that is
07:26
not the absence of life what is there
07:27
different it’s not really
07:30
absence of life um well I’m I don’t I’m
07:35
not gonna talk with any confidence here
07:37
about this but I’m just thinking I would
07:41
just think about this
07:43
if you have a complex machine which is
07:44
connected in all sorts of interesting
07:46
ways managing information and so on then
07:49
if one component went wrong
07:52
chemically I don’t think that would
07:54
cause death but if you get a breakdown
07:57
on the communication which would then
07:59
rapidly spread I think that would that
08:02
would be a problem and that’s how I
08:04
think about it in a Cell often of course
08:07
when people die it’s when you know that
08:10
the brain dies and so you stop but I
08:16
think it is a it is probably a breakdown
08:18
of information and where it’s managed
08:20
but I’m being spellcheck the cat right
08:24
Christina I know it’s it’s very hard to
08:32
speculate on how life got started but
08:35
yeah how would you feel would speculate
08:37
on given the right chemistry and energy
08:41
and time that life is and the processes
08:44
of life were inevitable to emerge or a
08:46
wildly improbable event well as you say
08:49
it’s very it’s very difficult issue I
08:51
mean it’s extremely interesting one than
08:53
some of my colleagues across the world
08:56
do work on this I think the best idea is
09:01
that primitive life may have been based
09:04
on RNA I mean that’s what they tend to
09:08
argue and the reason they do that is
09:11
because although I made this clear
09:13
distinction between DNA being chemically
09:16
inactive and proteins being chemically
09:19
active and that you can then turn one
09:21
into the other by coding if you take RNA
09:25
which is the intermediate step RNA has
09:28
the ability to code and it is also in a
09:34
limited way chemically active so it’s
09:36
not too chemically active to make it
09:38
sort of impossible as a place to store
09:40
information and it has the possibility
09:43
that if you make one molecule that can
09:45
encode information and also carry out
09:48
chemical activities then you simplify
09:52
the beginnings of life
09:55
it doesn’t really get to grips with you
09:59
know cells and the the way metabolism
10:05
and all these things but I think it does
10:07
make a stab at the the code script
10:10
problem in in an interesting way
10:13
people also imagine that maybe life
10:17
evolved in geothermal vents props based
10:22
on RNA but getting energy from the
10:24
geothermal vents getting components from
10:27
the chemistry that can go on when those
10:29
geothermal vents so it’s dependent upon
10:33
non-life chemistry and that somehow that
10:36
could have produced it but we’re trying
10:38
to imagine what happened 3.5 billion
10:42
years ago and it’s it’s tough right
10:52
humans evolving our humans evolving it’s
10:58
related a bit to the question we had
10:59
earlier yes we are evolving and we’re
11:02
involving under different circumstances
11:03
than we did when we were
11:05
hunter-gatherers for 200,000 years but
11:09
yes we are evolving we and actually
11:15
there’s a whole new study we can now
11:17
extract DNA from bones of ancient humans
11:21
so we can actually track its
11:23
extraordinary you may have read about it
11:25
but we can track genetic changes in the
11:28
in the past from 1020 thousand years ago
11:32
and in fact in my Institute which is the
11:37
Francis Crick Institute up the road
11:40
we’ve just hired a an ancient DNA person
11:45
he’s not ancient he’s actually roll a
11:47
young but he works on ancient DNA and he
11:51
he’s going to be studying the
11:53
evolutionary changes that occurred
11:55
during the Agricultural Revolution when
11:58
we change from hunter gathering to
12:01
growing crops completely different diet
12:05
and also
12:07
the changes as you go through urban
12:09
ization where you get crowding and
12:11
therefore a much more prone to
12:13
infectious disease and we we have no
12:16
idea what changes occurred during that
12:18
time now we can address them and because
12:20
many of our diseases now are related to
12:23
dietary things this is going to be
12:24
extremely interesting and so that will
12:27
be an example of evolution in real time
12:31
or at least the last 20,000 years anyway
12:34
do we have any questions from this side
12:36
we do so on the very back row please
12:42
thanks and if cells can develop
12:45
according to the information storage or
12:48
the cold script can we do anything about
12:50
the cancer cells eg modifying
12:53
information and stop them from growing
12:56
again my translator I’m not very good at
13:01
this game
13:02
so anyway can we do anything about
13:03
cancer cells with our understanding in
13:05
terms of being able to all those yeah
13:07
thanks sorry
13:08
it’s night I suffer from tinnitus so
13:11
I’ve got noises in my head all the time
13:12
I’m waiting for them to change into
13:14
voices then I know I’m in real trouble
13:17
so that’s the reason now this is very
13:21
interesting because the first thing to
13:22
say is cancer is actually a consequence
13:25
of evolution by natural selection people
13:28
don’t see it that way but what you have
13:30
cancer is a genetic disease where a cell
13:34
undergoes genetic changes in the body
13:37
and those genes are the changed escape
13:40
the normal controls that stop it
13:42
dividing in the wrong places and at the
13:44
wrong time and because it starts to grow
13:48
and divide in the wrong place and at the
13:51
wrong time it can form a tumor and it is
13:53
an exact example of evolution by natural
13:55
selection because it is selecting if you
14:00
like for growth and as a consequence of
14:04
that it’s the same process that leads to
14:08
the creativity of life if you like and
14:10
how life forms got which is also one of
14:12
our scourge is it’s a sort of based on
14:15
the the you know this principle of
14:18
evolution by natural selection
14:21
now having said all of that in trying to
14:25
treat it what we need to address is what
14:28
genes are altered in cancers and what
14:32
are the consequences of that and there’s
14:34
been incredible progress in that in
14:36
since I started as a post graduate in
14:39
the last 40-plus years so we now know
14:43
the 3 400 or whatever it is genes that
14:46
are important for cancer we know how
14:48
they often change and damage themselves
14:51
or not damage themselves will become
14:53
damaged and we now know what pathways
14:56
and so on they disturb now this
14:58
knowledge is still rudimentary but over
15:02
time we will gather enough knowledge to
15:04
be able to intervene with them but
15:06
because cancer is not one disease it’s
15:09
hundreds of diseases because different
15:11
genes can cause it there will never be a
15:14
magic bullet for it there’ll be no
15:16
penicillin there’ll have to be special
15:19
interventions often drug using drugs but
15:23
there’s different ways of doing it also
15:25
stimulating the immune system so you can
15:27
attack cancer cells but they will almost
15:30
certainly have to be devised for each
15:32
individual cancer so it’s going to be a
15:35
long haul but I know I’m confident we
15:38
will gradually make progress in the
15:39
coming decades support you have not only
15:44
informed us this evening
15:46
you have entertained us this evening and
15:48
our minds have been stretched by you
15:50
grappling with what is arguably one of
15:52
the biggest questions that we will ever
15:54
pose what is life we’re very very
15:56
grateful to you for your elucidation
15:58
this evening and if we could thank
15:59
support in the most usual way
16:03
[Applause]
16:13
you